[Korea-chapter] [X3D] Minutes of H-Anim WG meeting, July 21, 4:00pm PDT (at SIGGRAPH and via Web conference)
Joe D Williams
joedwil at earthlink.net
Wed Jul 24 09:35:54 PDT 2013
Hi Myeong,
> 3D geometric data using segment
objects, as well as with skin coordinates.
Maybe not real important for this paragraph, but please understand the
difference between geometry that is parented by Segment objects
(Segment geometry) and the geometry that is parented by the Humanoid
'skin' field (skin field geometry).
For skin field geometry, it will be neccesary to bind each skin vertex
to Joint(s) using skinCoords/Index/Weight.
To my knowledge this is the best way to produce and animate a
continious mesh deformable surface. It is not necesary to do this with
Segment geometry.
A Displacer object can be used with either Segment geometry or skin
field geometry.
Thanks and Best,
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myeong Won Lee" <myeongwonlee at gmail.com>
To: "Joe D Williams" <joedwil at earthlink.net>
Cc: "Myeong Won Lee" <mwlee at suwon.ac.kr>; "Human Animation working
group" <h-anim at web3d.org>; <korea-chapter at web3d.org>; <x3d at web3d.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Korea-chapter] [X3D] Minutes of H-Anim WG meeting, July
21, 4:00pm PDT (at SIGGRAPH and via Web conference)
> Dear Joe,
>
> Here is the update of the description. I added "as well as with skin
> coordinates".
>
> --------------------------
> 8) Skeletal humanoid: Skeletal humanoid has typically been
> represented as
> the hierarchical structure
> of a human figure with a simple geometry according to the
> relationship of
> joints.
> Real skeletons can be represented with 3D geometric data using
> segment
> objects, as well as with skin coordinates.
> If we consider whole body and partial body in medical applications,
> an
> enhanced definition
> for skeletal humanoid is necessary with skinned humanoid
> representation.
> ---------------------------
>
> From now on, details can be added and updated into the draft.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Myeong
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Joe D Williams
> <joedwil at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>> < If the above mentioned descriptions are not clear, I will update
>> them
>> again based on your recommendations, after taking a closer loo
>>
>> The main idea here is that there are really two disticvt levels of
>> complexity for the Humanoid.
>> The first level has geometry parented by Segment nodes. When the
>> Joint
>> rotates, the segment geometry is directly affected, moving as
>> expected. An
>> example is like the 1Jun example where you have placed the geometry
>> with
>> the Segment. This is also the same as our current spec Annex A
>> "Motion"
>> example .
>>
>> Again, a Humanoid cn use either or both of these techniques.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> nodefollowsUnless we use displacers, , you don't need to know about
>> each v
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myeong Won Lee"
>> <mwlee at suwon.ac.kr>
>> To: <h-anim at web3d.org>
>> Cc: <korea-chapter at web3d.org>; <x3d at web3d.org>
>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 6:40 PM
>> Subject: [X3D] Minutes of H-Anim WG meeting, July 21, 4:00pm PDT
>> (at
>> SIGGRAPH and via Web conference)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Below are the minutes of the H-Anim WG meeting at SIGGRAPH.
>>> If there is anything missing, please add comments as necessary.
>>>
>>>
>>> Attendees:
>>> In person: William Glascoe, Dick Puk, Koji Makita, Kwan-Hee Yoo,
>>> Nicholas Polys,
>>> Anita Havele, Hwanyong Lee, Joo Young Do, Jung-Ju Choi, Gerard
>>> J. Kim,
>>> Ha-Jine Kimn, Johannes Behr, Myeong Won Lee
>>> Via Web conference: Joe Williams, Don Brutzman
>>>
>>>
>>> Nicholas would like to include the chat messages posted during the
>>> meeting via the ISO webex chat feature to these minutes. However,
>>> Gerry and
>>> I are not sure how to gather a log of the messages. (I am familiar
>>> with how
>>> to do this with Skype, for example, but not with webex.)
>>> My apologies.
>>>
>>>
>>> The H-Anim WG meeting will be held with agenda items as follows:
>>>> Time: July 21 (Sun) 4:00-6:00pm
>>>> Location: Hilton Anaheim Hotel and via Web conference (
>>>> https://iso-meetings.webex.**com
>>>> <https://iso-meetings.webex.com>)
>>>> Attendees will be in person and via Web conference.
>>>> 1. Review of NWIP documents for the new H-Anim
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The following item has been added to the scope of the previous
>>> version:
>>>
>>> - 11) 3D medical object for a humanoid: Humanoid models are useful
>>> in the
>>> medical field, including whole humanoids and partial humanoids (a
>>> segment
>>> or a partial segment), depending on the characteristics of the 3D
>>> medical
>>> application. 3D modeling and animation for medical objects should
>>> be
>>> defined. Volume rendering for medical applications is not included
>>> in this
>>> item.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Joe commented that the following items should be corrected
>>> because a
>>> skeletal humanoid can have 3D geometry with segment objects.
>>>
>>> 8) Skeletal humanoid: Skeletal humanoid has typically been
>>> represented as
>>> the hierarchical structure of a human figure with a simple
>>> geometry
>>> according to the relationship of joints. However, the
>>> representation should
>>> be enhanced to reference real skeletons with 3D geometric data to
>>> apply in
>>> medical and health fields. An enhanced definition for skeletal
>>> humanoid is
>>> necessary with skinned humanoid representation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - Based on Joe's comment, this item is amended to the following:
>>>
>>> 8) Skeletal humanoid: Skeletal humanoid has typically been
>>> represented as
>>> the hierarchical structure of a human figure with a simple
>>> geometry
>>> according to the relationship of joints. Real skeletons can be
>>> represented
>>> with 3D geometric data using segment objects. If we consider whole
>>> body and
>>> partial body in medical applications, an enhanced definition for
>>> skeletal
>>> humanoid is necessary with skinned humanoid representation.
>>>
>>> Please send comments if this is not acceptable.
>>>
>>> Joe, I have just read your e-mail with your concerns about
>>> skeletal and
>>> skinned humanoids.
>>>
>>>
>>> If the above mentioned descriptions are not clear, I will update
>>> them
>>> again based on your recommendations, after taking a closer look.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. Review of initial drafts for the WDs of the two parts (NWIP)
>>>>
>>>> - Humanoid Animation - Architecture (Part 1)
>>>> - Humanoid Animation - Motion Capture (Part 2)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Part 1 WD, ISO/IEC 19774 will be revised as follows:
>>> - Part 1 includes all the content of ISO/IEC 19774, and will be
>>> enhanced
>>> with details of existing concepts and new items.
>>> - Existing concepts with be enhanced with further details and
>>> examples
>>> relating to recent work.
>>> - New items will be added with details and examples.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Part 2 WD has been enhanced from the draft summary presented at
>>> previous
>>> Korea Chapter meetings and SC24 meetings.
>>> All new items in the scope of the NWIP for Part 2 have been
>>> summarized.
>>> These will be enhanced with further explanations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. New proposals
>>>>
>>>> - Facial animation, Prof. Jung-Ju Choi (Ajou University, Korea)
>>>> - Hands and Feet animation, Prof. Kwan-Hee Yoo (Chungbuk National
>>>> University, Korea)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Jung-Ju Choi's presentation, he mentioned that it is very
>>> difficult to
>>> define facial expression using the current H-Anim specification.
>>> He focused on the following points:
>>>
>>> - Because H-Anim is based on the skeleton hierarchy, and because
>>> facial
>>> animation is not relevant to the hierachy, it is very difficult to
>>> use
>>> H-Anim for facial expression.
>>> - Although displacer nodes can be used for facial expression, we
>>> would
>>> have to define numerous displacer nodes, perhaps hundreds or more
>>> for each
>>> facial expression.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> During Kwan-Hee Yoo's presentation, he mentioned that current
>>> H-Anim is
>>> lacking in representing hands and feet animation.
>>> He is considering gesture animation of hands and feet using
>>> H-Anim, but
>>> it is difficult to represent gesture because of the following
>>> points:
>>>
>>> - Anatomically, the number of joints for hands and feet is lacking
>>> in the
>>> H-Anim specification. This is required to define them anatomically
>>> in
>>> detail.
>>> - He also thinks that the hierarchy of H-Anim makes gesture of
>>> hands and
>>> feet impossible because the motion of palm, sole, or top of foot
>>> does not
>>> depend on this hierarchy.
>>>
>>>
>>> The joints of palm and foot are not represented with tree
>>> structure (tree
>>> structure), but rather formed in a cycle.
>>>
>>> The two proposals will also be discussed further at the SC24
>>> Sydney
>>> meeting to be held in the last week of August.
>>> They will continue to develop standards in order to enhance the
>>> functionality of H-Anim.
>>> These proposals will also be discussed further at upcoming H-Anim
>>> WG
>>> meetings.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. H-Anim characters designed with general 3D tools
>>>>
>>>
>>> Due to time restrictions, this item could not been discussed at
>>> the
>>> meeting. However, the content is the same as was presented
>>> previously.
>>> Demonstration of an H-Anim motion viewer with various H-Anim
>>> characters
>>> designed with a general 3D tool was scheduled.
>>> The method of designing an H-Anim character using a general 3D
>>> tool is
>>> included in the Annex of Part 2 WD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 5. Scheduling next meeting
>>>> (1st Wed) August 7 at 5:00pm PDT (1st, 9:00am KST) or
>>>> (3rd Mon) August 19 at 5:00pm PDT (3rd, 9:00am KST)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The next H-Anim WG meeting will be held on August 7th at 5pm on
>>> the Web3D
>>> teleconference.
>>>
>>> Thank you to all attendees, including those in person as well as
>>> those
>>> attending via Web conference.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>>
>>> Myeong
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Myeong Won Lee
>>> Dept. of Information Media, College of IT, U. of Suwon
>>> Hwaseong-si, Gyeonggi-do, 445-743 Korea
>>> Tel) +82-31-220-2313, +82-10-8904-4634
>>> E-mail) mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> --------------------
>>
>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Myeong Won Lee
> Dept. of Information Media, College of IT, U. of Suwon
> Hwaseong-si, Gyeonggi-do, 445-743 Korea
> Tel) +82-31-220-2313, +82-10-8904-4634
> E-mail) mwlee at suwon.ac.kr
>
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