<div dir="auto">Apologies, this is a design diary. TL;DR.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Summary: 1) Apply appropriate non-default transforms to all objects in Blender export except HAnim. Think about combining similar sibling Transforms 2) Make sure animation export is working. 3) Remove duplicates on export, or don’t add them. 4) Make sure ImageTexture is created. 5) deal with USE only Materials.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’ve suggested using alternates for bone vertex_groups that might work for skin weights. I believe the suggestion to use a hook was shot down before it got out of the chute.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Please look for a way to do sites and segments and their geometry without a second hierarchy. This includes anything I’ve previously suggested. One thing might be to use bones for sites, segments and joints, then attach any transforms and geometry in HAnim to the armature. Blender examples are especially helpful.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I realize that geometry (objects) can be attached to armature (and probably a bone can be assigned to object through use of bone_parent on an object, and setting the object’s parent to the armature, but I don’t plan a flat list of objects under the armature, so that’s currently only humanoid_root).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I’m currently having all sorts of warnings on export, but then a file pops out, admittedly with lots of duplicates I previously removed (I rewrote the code, oops!). I plan on writing a “childrenAppendNoDuplicates” function, which will remove duplicates (not add them to the exported scene again). I realize this is a hack for now. I’m also thinking that there may be some kind of transform hierarchy to export, which I probably disabled, based on recent non-HAnim exports. I was trying to flatten an animation hierarchy of ROUTE and Interpolators I constructed. There are better methods…. Time to back out… And rethink…</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I also realize I am using “skeleton” for the hanim humanoid node , the armature, and the main HAnim joint with the skeleton container field . I will work towards avoiding that. My choices will be humanoid, armature and skeleton. I believe my exporter already reflects this.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I would also like to get to “scale” based animation, like HAnimDisplacer.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Basically, I’ve prioritized skinning over something like getting all the various pieces of geometry animated on a humanoid(getting all the local transforms correct).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">AFAIK, there are no sites or segments in Blender, just various bones and objects with certain types. No, I’m not up on the latest Blender has to offer.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I can return to getting Jin working, but I’m not promising results anytime soon, or at all. Blender basically seems to have too many ways to do things. What I can do is prepare a Jin with a single animation and we can discuss.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If this was an issue with geometry or positioning, I think we could have a good handle on it. The issues show up with animation. In particular, local animation, which I’ve been adding or enabling, especially for import. AFAIK, PositionInterpolators work. So we’re talking about OrientationInterpolators and others…I will review animation code in import. There may be other options.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I believe that relying on matrix_world to store transforms in an object may be misguided, long term, realizing that having a hierarchy in place may help. I think a hierarchy is a good thing for human factors, even if there are two of them in the armature. A long list of segments and sites under armature is not ideal…</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If objects and bones agreed on what to call the matrices, that would be cool.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Eventually many will be operating Blender with voice, it seems. I’m guessing that won’t include me. Time to sell stock in wrist braces and buy throat therapy stock.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">John</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2024 at 3:55 PM <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><p style="margin:0.1rem 0px;line-height:1;font-family:Arial">the dual hierarchy is something lame blender needs, not x3d. </p>
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<p>-----Original Message-----<br>From: John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>Sent: Dec 26, 2024 9:26 PM<br>To: X3D Ecosystem public discussion <<a href="mailto:x3d-ecosystem@web3d.org" target="_blank">x3d-ecosystem@web3d.org</a>>, Joe D Williams <<a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net" target="_blank">joedwil@earthlink.net</a>>, Katy Schildmeyer KS APPAREL DESIGN <<a href="mailto:katy@ksappareldesign.com" target="_blank">katy@ksappareldesign.com</a>>, Carol McDonald <<a href="mailto:cemd2@comcast.net" target="_blank">cemd2@comcast.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: As previously discussed. Bone handling</p>
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<div dir="ltr">Here's a slightly more interesting dual hierarchy import, with some duplicate nodes. I'll have to research where they are coming from.
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 10:28 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Here's the first attempt at a dual hierarchy import (seriously) of Joe Skin, update 3. Note that there's no transform :"Joe_humanoid_root" yet. Note that Joe_sacrum and Joe_RootFront are under Joe_humanoid, AxisLineShape is inside Joe_RootFront (inside the Humanoid), so that's why the AxisLineShape gets assigned to the skin on export. But I don't know why there are 4 axis line shapes yet.
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<div>Also note that the animations are assigned to the empties (transforms), not the bones. The vertex_groups hang off the IFS.<br>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Thu, Dec 26, 2024 at 7:26 PM John Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">I will soon modify my Blender importer to add a joint hierarchy of empty objects under the armature that refers to blender bones that i currently add for joints under the armature. I am doing this primarily as optimization. I will quickly be able to find the bone_parent of the empty object, plus have a place to hang segments and sites without confusion of figuring out which segment goes with each bone. The empty objects will map one for one with the bones. If there’s no skin field, I will seriously consider deleting all bones. If there’s a skin field, i will seriously consider deleting all joint empty objects. Then we will also consider Hanim exports with and without bones to decide what to do. Obviously, we only want one joint hierarchy on output.
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<div dir="auto">This seems like a good approach to handle both skinning and site/segment geometry.</div>
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