[X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C

[Len Bullard]

I hate to be blunt, Lauren, but I think there isn't a bats chance in hell
they'll do that.  Bit between the teeth and all that.  So far, that's been
the behavior we've seen for over fifteen years worth of 'new initiatives to
create 3D standards for the web'.  They have all failed.

Ever ask yourself why every attempt to replace X3D fails?

The discussion always starts with two points:

a) X3D low adoption means it has failed
b) HTML models for 3D can be made general enough to do all the jobs X3D can
do now.

X3D is an order of magnitude too hard for HTML layout specialists to work
with and they are the primary authors if the argument is composible
compatibility with the HTML stack results in wider adoption (wider than what
from a standing start: X3D of course).  The HTML part of the stack is
irrelevant.  The Javascript/DOM isn't as you note.  CSS is the bear in the
woods.  It is unclear to me how the CSS property system offers the X3D stack
any advantages.

I'm not for a moment suggesting the working group not proceed.  They may
want to answer the question above first.

len

-----Original Message-----
From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On
Behalf Of GLG
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:55 PM
To: x3d-public at web3d.org
Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D
HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C

>If they give us a good DOM to play with.

Yes, in theory. ::crossfingers:: And, of course, an accurate
implementation of the X3D spec. Otherwise, this could get
real messy in a hurry - this is no time for experimentation
with 3D standards - I hope "they" will stick to the wisdom
and the experience of the now tried and true, the
interminable labor that resulted in what we know actually
works and why. IMO any proposed changes to the spec should
be referred to the Web3D Consortium for proper evaluation. I
am sure glad good Consortium people are involved to help
steer "things" in the right direction. Heck, it's about time
I renew my membership (I hope others will too :). You guys
need and deserve all the help you can get.

Cheers,
Lauren



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe D Williams [mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:12 PM
>To: info at 3dnetproductions.com; x3d-public at web3d.org
>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5
>meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C
>
>> Please don't ask me to do brain surgery with a spoon.
>
>Maybe some new tools? SInce the end objective must be to
>represent the
>element as a live scriptable DOM tree then lots of stuff
>like passing
>data to and from the embedded context and controlling
>processing
>within the thing may be easier or at least more familiar to
>many If
>they give us a good DOM to play with.
>But heck we all know how easy it is to do easy stuff with
>simple
>animations and interactions. As len said
>somewhen,"Rendering and
>behavioral fidelity are equal requirements in these
>systems". We now
>see that it is relatively common to get similar rendering
>fidelity
>between platforms, even approaching 'realistic' high
>fidelity in
>appearance even when an appearance is complex. And, so it
>will be with
>fidelity for simple behaviours. Heck maybe all somebody has
>to learn
>is some 3DCSS.
>When behaviors get complex and require synchronization to
>achieve
>fidelity, our mastery of the DOM event system will define
>'realistic'
>to the user. Then, getting almost to what is needed for
>real hifi fun
>discover why the X3D SAI internal/external event system
>works like it
>does.
>
>Or, maybe some tech or practice that would shake up our
>event system
>'pipeline' like shaders changed the rendering pipeline.
>Joe



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