[X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C

[GLG]

I know. I'm trying to be consilient so we avoid getting into
another blood bath. Lauren


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Len Bullard [mailto:cbullard at hiwaay.net]
>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:09 PM
>To: info at 3dnetproductions.com; x3d-public at web3d.org
>Subject: RE: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D
>HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at
>W3C
>
>I hate to be blunt, Lauren, but I think there isn't a bats
>chance in hell
>they'll do that.  Bit between the teeth and all that.  So
>far, that's been
>the behavior we've seen for over fifteen years worth of
>'new initiatives to
>create 3D standards for the web'.  They have all failed.
>
>Ever ask yourself why every attempt to replace X3D fails?
>
>The discussion always starts with two points:
>
>a) X3D low adoption means it has failed
>b) HTML models for 3D can be made general enough to do all
>the jobs X3D can
>do now.
>
>X3D is an order of magnitude too hard for HTML layout
>specialists to work
>with and they are the primary authors if the argument is
>composible
>compatibility with the HTML stack results in wider adoption
>(wider than what
>from a standing start: X3D of course).  The HTML part of
>the stack is
>irrelevant.  The Javascript/DOM isn't as you note.  CSS is
>the bear in the
>woods.  It is unclear to me how the CSS property system
>offers the X3D stack
>any advantages.
>
>I'm not for a moment suggesting the working group not
>proceed.  They may
>want to answer the question above first.
>
>len
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org [mailto:x3d-public-
>bounces at web3d.org] On
>Behalf Of GLG
>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:55 PM
>To: x3d-public at web3d.org
>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D
>HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at
>W3C
>
>>If they give us a good DOM to play with.
>
>Yes, in theory. ::crossfingers:: And, of course, an
>accurate
>implementation of the X3D spec. Otherwise, this could get
>real messy in a hurry - this is no time for experimentation
>with 3D standards - I hope "they" will stick to the wisdom
>and the experience of the now tried and true, the
>interminable labor that resulted in what we know actually
>works and why. IMO any proposed changes to the spec should
>be referred to the Web3D Consortium for proper evaluation.
>I
>am sure glad good Consortium people are involved to help
>steer "things" in the right direction. Heck, it's about
>time
>I renew my membership (I hope others will too :). You guys
>need and deserve all the help you can get.
>
>Cheers,
>Lauren
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe D Williams [mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net]
>>Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 3:12 PM
>>To: info at 3dnetproductions.com; x3d-public at web3d.org
>>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5
>>meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C
>>
>>> Please don't ask me to do brain surgery with a spoon.
>>
>>Maybe some new tools? SInce the end objective must be to
>>represent the
>>element as a live scriptable DOM tree then lots of stuff
>>like passing
>>data to and from the embedded context and controlling
>>processing
>>within the thing may be easier or at least more familiar
>to
>>many If
>>they give us a good DOM to play with.
>>But heck we all know how easy it is to do easy stuff with
>>simple
>>animations and interactions. As len said
>>somewhen,"Rendering and
>>behavioral fidelity are equal requirements in these
>>systems". We now
>>see that it is relatively common to get similar rendering
>>fidelity
>>between platforms, even approaching 'realistic' high
>>fidelity in
>>appearance even when an appearance is complex. And, so it
>>will be with
>>fidelity for simple behaviours. Heck maybe all somebody
>has
>>to learn
>>is some 3DCSS.
>>When behaviors get complex and require synchronization to
>>achieve
>>fidelity, our mastery of the DOM event system will define
>>'realistic'
>>to the user. Then, getting almost to what is needed for
>>real hifi fun
>>discover why the X3D SAI internal/external event system
>>works like it
>>does.
>>
>>Or, maybe some tech or practice that would shake up our
>>event system
>>'pipeline' like shaders changed the rendering pipeline.
>>Joe
>
>
>
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