[X3D-Public] Fwd: Re: [X3D] X3D HTML5meetingdiscussions:Declarative 3D interest group at W3C

[GLG]

>Things are not as easy as they sometimes seem to be.


Philipp, This is our point exactly. Many of the things that
are discussed now we have gone through in the past at one
point or another. A lot of it is documented and available on
the Web. The consensus of years of debate, arguments and
compromises (by many more talented people) resulted in what
we have today. If we have ROUTES and PROTOS ETC ETC it is
because they were needed/wanted. Not everyone agrees to
everything, but that never really happens anywhere.

It seems your main arguments against a lot of it is that, it
cannot be done, or you cannot include it, or it will not
work inside or together with HTML. Perhaps, the reason for
this is that it doesn't belong there (Len said that too if
you recall). I have never tried to put a movie inside a
book, or, worse yet, a video game inside a newspaper or a
magazine picture (as in a 3D media into a 2D container),
because I know the chances of that working well are very
small. I could rig a book with hardware and say "-look it
works", but then I won't really have a book anymore. I will
have a contortioned device masquerading as something that
would be neither a good book nor a good video game. Or, I
can put a hologram picture in a magazine and say "-look I
have an interactive 3D mag" but do I, really?

Notwithstanding the validity or even the exact relevance of
the above examples, or lack thereof (that is beside the
point), and not meaning to be sarcastic either believe me, I
am trying to represent what some of us are trying to say.
You obviously have some time invested in XLM3D, but,
honestly, that pales in comparison with what we have
invested in X3D, and this by a very large margin. You talk
about the large number of people already using this or that
technology on the web, but there are not the 3D experts now
are they? X3D was put together the way it is because that's
what works best. You wouldn't want to get all of those
internet users on the wrong path now do you? If all of the
people who have contributed to X3D over the years would be
here now at the same time, with all due respect, you would
get buried, deep. XML3D is your baby and you love him, I can
understand that for its own merits, innovation always has
merits, but X3D is our grandchild, and we are very proud of
him too. It wasn't always easy, but he's now a strong,
reliable and mature individual (figuratively speaking of
course).

To me, it would make a lot more sense to render HTML inside
a 3D scene than a 3D scene inside HTML. X3D can already
supports multimedia assets such as sounds and movies. How
far are you planning to get with XML3D? Seeing HTML inside
X3D is one of my dreams, not the other way around. But, if
you insist, please develop support for a core X3D Profile
with a clear upgrade path (to paraphrase Joe - but probably
not going to happen, like Len said - that I wonder why, I
really do). The standards have already been defined. There
is no need to re-invent 3D. I can only support XML3D as a
step up to X3D. That is the only way what you are doing can
make sense to me. Otherwise, you're headed toward a dead end
IMO, as from your own admission of HTML imposed limitations,
and I don't need to go down that path. You can use a
patchwork of components and try keeping things together for
a while, but eventually you'll long for the real thing;
better be ready.

As for WebGL, well it is what it is. That child may grow-up
too someday. I am not asking to throw out the baby with the
bath water. But, please, ensure that proper research is
being done, as X3D is the elderly to look up to, and respect
it deserves. I expect it to remain so for quite a
foreseeable future. Thanks for coming to this list so we
have an opportunity to express our opinions before the XG.
That is truly appreciated.

I do not really have too many questions, probably more
answers. Feel free to ask. You will always get help from
this list. No, "things are not as easy as they sometimes
seem to be", unless I'd hold a hologram card in my hand
(hilarious or dead serious - take your pick). But, you
obviously have much drive and are not likely to quit; your
mind appears set on many things. All of this is only to be
useful. So good luck. I hope the XG will learn X3D,
experience it, and really think things through before going
too far with anything. No one wants 3D to fall flat.

Now we can discuss the lack of adoption for 3D in general,
but I'm getting tired. That maybe for another day. Let me
just say that I am not convinced you have the right solution
to this problem, maybe a partial solution at best. Many have
tried and history has lessons to teach us here.  

Cheers,
Lauren