[X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)

Sun May 2 17:35:05 PDT 2010

On 2 May 2010 19:50, Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at> wrote:

>  Thanks for the technical hints.
>
> And yes: if I were important, I would second your statement that a
> standardized protocol/interface between client and server would be an asset
> for X3D.
>
> However, commercial companies usually do
>     - what the customer wants
>     - what is the cheapest
> (in this order)
>
> And as long as the customers (i.e. content authors) do not insist in a
> standardized protocol, there won't be a standardized protocol.
>
> it's that easy, imho. Please correct me, if I'm not aware of some details
> of the X3D history, since I'm more or less a newbie.
>
That's basically the way it has gone historically. There appeared to be
little will among the Browser vendors to collectively agree on and work on a
standardised sensor node and protocol. It may also be that my expectations
for real progress to an agreed standard in a 2 year time frame was
unrealistic. Anyway, status quo seems a little better but nowhere near [my]
original target, and I have moved on.

best of luck,

chris

> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Sun, 02 May 2010 02:05:20 -0400
> Von: "Russ Kinter" <pyth7 at verizon.net>
> An: "'Christoph Valentin'" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> CC: "'X3D Graphics public mailing list'" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Betreff: RE: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Christoph Valentin [mailto:christoph.valentin at gmx.at]<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=christoph.valentin%40gmx.at>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:37 AM
> *To:* pyth7 at verizon.net<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=pyth7%40verizon.net>
> *Cc:* X3D-Public at web3d.org<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=X3D-Public%40web3d.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  > As far as MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost
>
>
>
>  > (i.e. Free as in free client AND server)
>
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, I like the Network Sensor concept (due to its generality),
> and don't forget:
>
>
>
>
> * An X3D viewer is not required to support Java (either Internal in a
> Script node or external)
>
>
>
>
> * An X3D viewer is required to support ECMAScript in the Script node - if
> the viewer supports the Script node
> * An X3D viewer is not required to support external SAI with ECMAScript
> (I copied these sentences from another forum, Author: Leonard Daly)
>
> When I use network sensors, it's possible to implement rather complex MU
> animations/simulations just using ECMAScript, without being dependent on
> the SAI/EAI.
>
>
>
> *[Russ Kinter]  It’s called cascading. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *One event from the network has the capability of triggering many
> animations.. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *EAI when it is done properly is exactly the same way. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *You instance a NetworkSensor Node and I instance a proto that is acquired
> by the Java. In both our cases it is the ECMA script that does most of the
> work in terms of animations. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *You are dependent on the X3D browser implementing NetworkSensor Node to
> communicate to the server and I am dependent on a Java Socket and thread. We
> are both dependent on some extra feature to talk to the network. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *The difference is with EAI can do far more - I can communicate with other
> Java programs. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *For example since Instant Player won’t play mp3 files I found an
> open-source Java program that can and after writing a faux-Sound Node I can
> play mp3 and other audio formats not supported by any X3D browser in a
> world. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *As far as the “mandatory” issue goes, I don’t think the NetworkSensor is
> mandatory either at least when I search *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/ *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *it** can’t be found. So I suggest both means of talking to the network
> are **optional**. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *Don’t get me wrong the NetworkSensor Node is -or rather- was a great idea
> until its protocol was allowed to be made proprietary. God forbid profits
> should be missed out on because some amateurs could possibly write an MU
> system using the NetworkSensor Node. For me the whole proprietary protocol
> issue makes a sham out of claims of the spec being open-source. *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *Riddle me this: What is part of an open-source spec but isn’t itself
> open-source? *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *Russ Kinter *
> *
>
>
> *
>
> * *
> *
>
>
> *
>
>  -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:10:05 -0500 (CDT)
> Von: pyth7 at verizon.net<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=pyth7%40verizon.net>
> An: christoph.valentin at gmx.at<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=christoph.valentin%40gmx.at>
> CC: X3D-Public at web3d.org<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de1453266715.1272793061.226bd6b1&to=X3D-Public%40web3d.org>
> Betreff: Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)
>
>
>
>  >is there something else in the standard, that can be used for multiuser
> mode (besides SAI/EAI)?
>
>
>
>  To the best of my knowledge no -not as a standard per se.
>
>
>
>  However some people have done interesting MU stuff with php:
>
>
>
>  http://www.x-robot.com/
> http://3dchat.3d-check.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Paul Aslin has something similar as well -it may be the 3dchat link.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  As far as MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost
>
>
>
>  (i.e. Free as in free client AND server)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Russ Kinter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Apr 30, 2010 04:23:34 PM, christoph.valentin at gmx.at<http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de537344352.1272709485.54f3f8ca&to=christoph.valentin%40gmx.at>wrote:
>
>
>
>  Dear all
>
> I did some private (hobby) studies regarding multiuser mode and rather
> complex scenes (combining content from different authors) and would like to
> ask, if you could second my experiences,
>
> or if somebody disagrees (the whole project is documented at
> http://simulrr.wordpress.com).
>
> See below
>
> I am aware of Network Sensor and DIS, is there something else in the
> standard, that can be used for multiuser mode (besides SAI/EAI)?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Christoph
>
>
>
> *BS Contact
>
>
> *
>
> Supported from the beginning of the project. Multi-user-mode with and BS
> Collaborate definitively possible.
>
>
>
> *Octaga
>
>
> *
>
> Supported from spring 2009 onwards. Multi-user-mode with theoretically
> possible, but no free test version of collaboration server available ->
> multi-user-mode cannot be supported currently.
>
>
>
> *Instant Reality
>
>
> *
>
> First trials positive. Yet unknown, whether Network Sensor node is
> supported or not. According to X3D-public mailing list an open source
> multi-user-framework exists (to be analysed).
>
>
>
> *Free WRL
>
>
> *
>
> First trials show, that is not supported → postponed.
>
>
>
> *Xj3D
>
>
> *
>
> First trials show, that Xj3D has problems with nested prototypes →
> postponed.
>
>
>
> *Vivaty
>
>
> *
>
> Not available AFAIK
>
>
>
> *SwirlX3D
>
>
> *
>
> First trials not un-positive, but show up problems with viewpoints in
> prototypes, proximity sensors in prototypes etc. → postponed
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>  ------------------------------
>
>
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