[X3D-Public] remote motion invocation (RMI)

GLG info at 3dnetproductions.com
Thu Mar 3 01:37:04 PST 2011


>On the other hand, I could see a setup where live joint
>rotation and
>displacement data was streamed into the scene and routed
>to joints to
>affect the humanoid in real time, rather than using
>client-side
>interpolators and combiners.


Thanks for your reply. Yes, that is better; 'streaming'
data does seem closer to something conceivable, even
interesting. However, since talking about humanoids likely
implies multi-users in most applications, I'd start
getting worried about processors' cache/memory bandwidth;
I don't think we are there yet to support a great many
users this way. Even with high clock speed, multi-core
processors and of course plenty of network bandwidth, low
level memory management will remain an issue as the number
of users increases, IMO. It already is with much simpler
systems. That is why I like to have as much done on the
client side as possible. Other than helping lowly devices,
I'd be curious about the main advantages of the above
approach? Open to ideas but, as far as mobile devices,
hopefully Moore's law will continue to hold true for some
time...

Cheers,
Lauren


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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joe D Williams [mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 7:49 PM
>To: info at 3dnetproductions.com; 'Sven-Erik Tiberg';
>npolys at vt.edu; x3d-public at web3d.org
>Cc: luca.chittaro at uniud.it
>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation (RMI)
>
>
>>
>> Hello Joe,
>>
>> While we are on the subject, I have asked you this
>before
>> but I think you missed it. There is a link at
>>
>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/workgroups/h-anim/
>>
>> for ISO-IEC-19775 X3D Component 26 Humanoid Animation
>> (H-Anim) which describes H-Anim interfaces in terms of
>the
>> X3D scenegraph...
>>
>> That link is broken. Where else can I obtain this?
>
>goto:
>
>http://www.web3d.org/x3d/specifications/ISO-IEC-19775-
>1.2-X3D-
>AbstractSpecification/Part01/components/hanim.html
>
>the latest spec changed base and we lost the link.
>I will tell the webmaster
>
>> If I am
>> asking the wrong person then, can someone else help?
>
>I think the most current spec should have the same link
>forever.
>
>>
>> Apologies for hijacking this thread, maybe I am not
>> getting this right, but, I have difficulties getting
>> around my head how server side rasterization can work
>with
>> X3D other than with the MovieTexture node.
>
>Well, i think server side rasterization could work when
>you have a
>simple mesh avatar and all you want to do is just show
>apparent
>vertices move so you send sort of a set of gifs on a
>billboard down to
>the client. Don't get it? me either:).
>On the other hand, I could see a setup where live joint
>rotation and
>displacement data was streamed into the scene and routed
>to joints to
>affect the humanoid in real time, rather than using
>client-side
>interpolators and combiners. I think even mobile will
>always have
>power to do reasonable h-anim skin and bone characters
>but low end
>performance devices may need a more simple character with
>fewer joints
>and more open mesh and different textures.
>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lauren
>>
>
>Thanks and Best Regards,
>Joe
>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org [mailto:x3d-public-
>>>bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of Joe D Williams
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:09 PM
>>>To: Sven-Erik Tiberg; npolys at vt.edu; x3d-
>public at web3d.org
>>>Cc: luca.chittaro at uniud.it
>>>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>(RMI)
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Sven-Erik Tiberg" <Sven-Erik.Tiberg at ltu.se>
>>>To: <npolys at vt.edu>; <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>>Cc: <luca.chittaro at uniud.it>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 6:14 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>(RMI)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> A note.
>>>> Would it be possible to create a object similar to
>>>dynamic h-anim,
>>>> looking and behaving like a moose.
>>>
>>>THe basis for h-anim comes from general-purpose
>>>hierarchical animation
>>>needs. That is, the shoulder joint is connected to the
>>>elbow joint,
>>>for example, such that when the shoulder joint is
>moved,
>>>then the
>>>elbow joint is translated accordingly as expected. To
>>>follow the same
>>>technique for a different character, just position the
>>>joints and
>>>segments you chose to use depending upon the level of
>>>articulation you
>>>need in skeleton space then build the skin in skin
>space
>>>(hopefully
>>>the same as skeleton space), connect it up and animate
>>>the thing.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No I'm not kidding, in the future we hope to create a
>>>X3D-sceen for
>>>> driver simulator with "living" moose and reindeers (
>>>they are not so
>>>> exotic up here but more real and a hazard on the
>roads
>>>).
>>>> Could be that the same motion pattern can be used for
>>>deers and elks
>>>> and ..
>>>
>>>possibly. Note that the selection of initial binding
>time
>>>joint
>>>rotation is important.
>>>
>>>Good Luck and Best Regards,
>>>Joe
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> /Sven-Erik Tiberg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org
>>>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of
>>>Sven-Erik Tiberg
>>>> Sent: den 1 mars 2011 08:51
>>>> To: npolys at vt.edu; x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>>>(RMI)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If there are a need for extending the h-anim
>kinematic
>>>capacity I
>>>> would have a look at Modelica
>https://www.modelica.org/
>>>And  (
>>>> openmodelica ) https://www.modelica.org/ for
>>>calculation of dynamic
>>>> behavior.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO it would not be impossible to interface an
>>>openmodelica model
>>>> that runs in Real Time to a X3D sceen.
>>>>
>>>> On animiation of human I would like to suggest that
>you
>>>take a look
>>>> at http://hcilab.uniud.it/index.html  and it's editor
>>>H-Animator
>>>> http://hcilab.uniud.it/demos-videos/item11.html
>>>>
>>>> /Sven-Erik Tiberg
>>>> Lulea Univ of Technology
>>>> Sweden
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org
>>>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of
>>>Nicholas F. Polys
>>>> Sent: den 28 februari 2011 21:34
>>>> To: x3d-public at web3d.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>>>(RMI)
>>>>
>>>> One of our members was working on this spec some time
>>>ago (2001),
>>>> perhaps a good integration target with H-Anim for
>such
>>>a platform or
>>>> communication layer: HumanML
>>>> http://www.oasis-
>>>open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=humanmarkup
>>>>
>>>> it does mention kinesthetics in the overview but I am
>>>really not
>>>> sure where it has been adopted.
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> br,
>>>>
>>>> _n_polys
>>>>
>>>> On 2/28/2011 1:54 PM, Joe D Williams wrote:
>>>>>> And what if the script could recive states ( ROUTED
>>>events ) from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 3D browser and do a animation on the fly using
>>>inverse kinematics,
>>>>>> that would be cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the basic needed structure for that is in
>the
>>>X3D H-Anim
>>>>> spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sven-Erik
>Tiberg"
>>>>> <Sven-Erik.Tiberg at ltu.se>
>>>>> To: "John Carlson" <john.carlson3 at sbcglobal.net>;
>>>>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 11:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>>>(RMI)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What if using an from the browser external motion
>>>engine as you
>>>>>> mention, but let the motion engine host in the
>client
>>>computer.
>>>>>> Communicating new states to the 3D-browser (to a
>h-
>>>amin model )
>>>>>> trough a script.
>>>>>> And what if the script could recive states ( ROUTED
>>>events ) from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 3D browser and do a animation on the fly using
>>>inverse kinematics,
>>>>>> that would be cool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for bringing up this subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /Sven-Erik Tiberg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org
>>>>>> [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of
>>>John Carlson
>>>>>> Sent: den 26 februari 2011 05:49
>>>>>> To: <x3d-public at web3d.org> mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: [X3D-Public] remote motion invocation
>(RMI)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Instead of downloading motion into a 3D scene, how
>>>about uploading
>>>>>> motion into a remote social network server or
>robot?
>>>One could
>>>>>> upload motions to a remote server, and then invoke
>>>them with
>>>>>> parameters.  One could create classes aggregating
>>>motion methods,
>>>>>> instantiate classes to create behaviors in avatars
>or
>>>robots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What if H-Anim was used to upload and control
>avatars
>>>remotely,
>>>>>> instead of downloaded models?  What I am thinking
>of
>>>is something
>>>>>> like Kinect/PrimeSense for primitive motion input +
>a
>>>programming
>>>>>> language for
>>>repetition/parameterization/classes/instantation.
>>>>>> What
>>>>>> if I chose a protocol/programming such as
>JavaScript?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does DIS do this?  Are there any patents to be
>aware
>>>of?  If we
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> something like Caja on the server, or sandbox the
>>>motion on the
>>>>>> server, could we insure the security of such an
>>>endeavor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Initially, I am thinking only of video download.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Carlson
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> X3D-Public mailing list
>>>>>> X3D-Public at web3d.org
>>>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-
>>>public_web3d.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> X3D-Public mailing list
>>>>>> X3D-Public at web3d.org
>>>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-
>>>public_web3d.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> X3D-Public mailing list
>>>>> X3D-Public at web3d.org
>>>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-
>public_web3d.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nicholas F. Polys Ph.D.
>>>>
>>>> Director of Visual Computing
>>>> Virginia Tech Information Technology
>>>>
>>>> Affiliate Research Professor
>>>> Virginia Tech Computer Science
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> X3D-Public at web3d.org
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>public_web3d.org
>>>>
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>public_web3d.org
>>>>
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>public_web3d.org
>>>
>>>
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