[x3d-public] id attribute proposal

Sat Apr 2 17:07:40 PDT 2016

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 3:27 AM, Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> I think the 'standard' html browser includes all the runtime needed for
> the SVG.
> Yes, I must be missing something because from what I looked at that same
> script could be external or internal to the SVG context. Do they need an
> special svg script node internal to the <svg> ... <./svg> just for
> convenience or does it do something not possible if the script is outside?.
> I thought the html scrpt node could actually appear almost anywhere but
> maybe not enclosed in the svg or other tagset.
>

The way I understand the svg script element is that it happens to be
defined to be equivalent to the HTML script element but is actually a
different kind of element. I am sure there were good reasons not to
introduce any special functionality. It looks like the main decision was to
give it global scope, eg. access to the DOM outside the svg scene (dom).
The svg script element is useful when svg is used standalone, as in
inkscape for example.

> For x3dom some great javascript provides the X3D 'runtime' and I guess
> that and maybe other details makes problems for the X3D 'internal' Script
> node.

Well, cobweb shows that is is possible to have a javascript runtime with an
internal script node which follows the spec, It is just that it is
difficult to have both at the same time integration of x3d into the DOM as
DOM elements (like svg), and also support for internal x3d scripts. It
would be great for backward compatibility to somehow have both ways of
interfacing with a x3d scene but it would be a major effort and I am not
sure if there is enough motivation to try to realize that in a browser.

> And I agree that x3d inline in html can't run like the existing x3d sai
> 'external' because that interface requires any external application to use
> x3d sai syntax and always is managed directly by the X3D runtime.

abstract SAI
> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/Quick/SAIABSDEFS.htm
>
> ecmascript SAI
> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/Quick/SAIDEFS.htm
>
>
This is a nice compact list. Would it make sense for the group to come up
with equivalent DOM style interface functions, perhaps on a wiki page ?

> working on the sai java bindings.
>

Andreas

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Plesch" <
> andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> To: "Joe D Williams" <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2016 7:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] id attribute proposal
>
>
> This is an example on how the DOM via javascript is used to animate. There
>> is no difference between a script element inside or outside a svg scene
>> which is a fragment of a document.
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/script.html#ScriptElement
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 5:23 AM, Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/SVG/Element/script
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Plesch" <
>>> andreasplesch at gmail.com>
>>> To: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 4:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] id attribute proposal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/dreamweaver/2015/06/the-state-of-svg-animation.html
>>>
>>>>
>>>> has a lengthy discussion on SVG animation. It concludes that animation
>>>> via
>>>> the DOM are in many cases the best option because SMIL is deprecated and
>>>> easily replaced by more powerful JavaScript.
>>>>
>>>> I was hoping that the article goes into how collisions between SMIL, CSS
>>>> and DOM based animation are resolved but it does not. Apparently it is
>>>> not
>>>> a concern.
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>> It turns out that SVG uses the SMIL animation model:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/smil-animation/
>>>>
>>>> It defines that animation does not affect the DOM value of an animated
>>>> property but a separate presentation value which is only accessible to
>>>> the
>>>> animation runtime, and not the DOM. The specification does not go into
>>>> what
>>>> values are used for rendering but the idea is certainly that the
>>>> presentation value is used. This would make it necessary for a renderer
>>>> to
>>>> keep track of what attributes are currently animated by SVG and which
>>>> ones
>>>> are not. Since the animate element is the only possible way to do this
>>>> in
>>>> SVG, this is feasible. For the richer X3D scene graph, this would be
>>>> much
>>>> harder and does not seem like a good model to follow at first glance.
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Plesch
>> 39 Barbara Rd.
>> Waltham, MA 02453
>>
>>
>

-- 
Andreas Plesch
39 Barbara Rd.
Waltham, MA 02453
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