[x3d-public] Call to Progress on X3D V4

Mon Jan 11 05:30:53 PST 2016

>From my perspective^, V4 has had to 'burn the candle from both ends' - discover what's possible/doable/practical in html/webgl while moving x3d in that direction. So being too quick/early with a V4 may be sub-optimal.  Maybe V4 is the wrong name. For this stage of the game.
What might help is starting a new series of standards from 1.0 ie webx3dA 1.0, webx3dB 1.0 with A being the X3Dom style and B being the cobweb style. That would allow for a C, D or anything else that comes a long. Then if/when the world chooses a winner, when the dust settles a bit more, rename it.
In other words, I think you could/should be capturing things as they mature naturally, rather than steering/forcing the whole process. Relax a bit.
-Doug
^about me:
I'm a self-declared pseudo expert in VR: I follow in others footsteps and try and catch on.
* I've worked in spaghetti C native code in project freeWRL for 6 years
* taught game programming course in DX/C++ 6 week
* animated an industrial simulator in .wrl for a year
* modeled a historical townsite project in blender, exported to x3d for flux and kml for googleEarth  and ported x3d to x3dom and cobweb :
https://sites.google.com/site/airdriehistoricaltour/
And currently working toward accommodating HMD emulators and desktop configurations in freewrl (still native/C code, V3.3).
Before that, 2 decades of photogrammetric systems engineering and stereo machine vision algorithms.
Airdrie Historical Virtual Tour<https://sites.google.com/site/airdriehistoricaltour/>
sites.google.com
Airdrie Historical Virtual Tour - 3D rendering in googleEarth, virtual reality and webgl of early Airdrie,AB townsite, with photos placed

________________________________
From: x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org> on behalf of David Murphy <d.murphy at cs.ucc.ie>
Sent: January 11, 2016 5:35 AM
To: Leonard Daly
Cc: x3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net; X3D Graphics public mailing list
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Call to Progress on X3D V4

hi Leonard,

I completely understand your frustration with the situation.
Looking at things objectively I believe that the recent phenomenal interest in VR has taken the community by surprise. The X3D/VRML community has been comfortable operating at a particular pace, however circumstances are overtaking us.

I was preparing the first lecture of my Semester 2 VR class over the weekend, and was taken aback by the sheer number of startup (or should it be upstart) attempts at developing a ‘VR’ language/platform (proprietary or open).

This ‘new’ VR industry is either unaware of X3D or has chosen to bypass, for whatever reason, the standard.
If this isn’t addressed soon X3D may become irrelevant, which none of us want to see.

I think one of the fundamental challenges facing the X3D WG and community of users and developers, is simply the lack of awareness of the standard in the VR industry.

I’m not a member of the WG, however as a member of the X3D community I genuinely appreciate the efforts of the WG, and so I will do whatever I can to promote/champion X3D.

cheers
rgds Dave
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David Murphy

Department of Computer Science
Room 1.77
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On 11 Jan 2016, at 06:04, Leonard Daly <web3d at realism.com<mailto:web3d at realism.com>> wrote:

Last week I sent a message to the X3D WG about my concerns on lack of progress for developing a V4 specification. This message is expanding the reach of the original message and providing additional requested material, specifically examples of situations where I would want and/or expect X3D to run in a browser. The list of examples is being expanded as developments occur.

The marketplace is making significant progress in commercialization of virtual and augmented reality. There is no standard format for expressing 3D content. The marketplace will choose at least one format and it will not likely be X3D.  Already there are alternative markup languages emerging that attempt to do what X3D has been doing for decades: create an HTML like language for 3D graphics.  GLAM is an example proposed by Tony Parisi, and most recently Mozilla’s A-frame, released 3 weeks ago, both attempting to speak in the language of web developers to bring VR/AR to the browser.

I am very frustrated in the lack of progress of the Working Group in developing a specification for X3D V4. There are number of issues that have been raised about the fundamentals of designs of X3D that appear to be incompatible with an HTML/DOM environment. A partial list includes the following:
* name-scope handling
* scripting
* interfaces to the nodes and fields through the DOM API
* event handling
* profile structure and contents
* newly supported formats (geometry and media)

Examples of X3D/X3DOM: http://tools.realism.com/x3d-v4-issue-examples
There are other concerns about event model that are not expressed in these examples mostly due to being unable to create an example that clearly shows the problem. It does exists and you may see some of that in sporadic or jerky movement in the animation examples using X3DOM.

I have a concept specification that is getting updated at http://tools.realism.com/specification/x3d-v40. The was first sent to the X3D WG in November and has had a couple of other discussions.

My specific technical concerns with the specification are listed in the Author's Notes at http://tools.realism.com/specification/x3d-v40/authors-notes

Most importantly, it is not clear to me who the WG believes is the target audience for the specification and how the specification will meet that audience’s needs.

As Co-Chair on Sabbatical and current member of the WG, I need to take some responsibility for not getting there. I have been working on developing a new specification and the beginning of an open-source web-based application for building scenes in the new specification. The web application is called “Basx3D - 3D the HTML Way”. I have posted an article about it’s initial release - http://realism.com/blog/basx3d. This post and one describing the X3D V4 proposal are publicly available.

The application is targeted at web developers who do not need to know the details of creating an X3D by hand. The concept was based on Unreal Engine and Unity editors. I will be continuing development of both the application and proposal on a frequent and regular basis. Basx3D and the proposed specification function as a two-way development effort with Basx3D reflecting the proposal and providing implementation information and experience back to the specification.

Although outside of its scope, the WG must be aware of the audience to which the standard is written, and the audience to which the standard is being promoted.  This concept is crucial to the future adoption of X3D and should ultimately be agreed upon by the BOD, but the WG needs to understand and follow this strategy which will ultimately influence prioritization of WG activity.

I am firmly committed to an open, royalty free, ISO ratified standard that communicates 3D data and its behaviors over networks, especially the dominant global network which is the internet, and which universally supports HTML5.  I don’t want to see the decades of work and passion that have been invested in the standards maintained and promoted by the Web3D Consortium relegated to the corridors of obscurity.  Because of many trends in software and hardware, a nexus of opportunity has been created like never before of which we can take advantage to catapult the Consortium’s standards to significant global adoption.  Let’s not miss this chance!

Leonard Daly
Basx3D and X3D V4 Specification Proposal Author

In Full Support
Mike Aratow
Treasurer, Web3D Consortium

--
*Leonard Daly*
X3D Co-Chair
Cloud Consultant
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/

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