[x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation

[Roy Walmsley]

Hi Joe,

 

I’d like to jump in here, and ask two related high level questions, please.

 

1)      Why is the title of the ISO/IEC 19774 standard series Humanoid Animation?

2)      Are the standards principally concerned with the general topic of skeletal animation (which, as you say, can equally apply to machines as organic entities), or the more specific portion of skeletal animation that is humanoid animation (where it is understood that humanoid also includes non-human)?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Roy

 

From: x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of Leonard Daly
Sent: 20 October 2016 18:01
To: Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>; X3D Public <x3d-public at web3d.org>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation

 

Joe,

Hi Leonard, 

http://realism.com/blog/purpose-x3d-animation. 

There are a few nuggets of some important general stuff mixed in with a poor and uninformed view of the industry and what X3D HAnim can do. 


There is absolutely nothing in my post about H-Anim. There is no use of "H-Anim", "HAnim", or "Human" (all case insensitive). 
That was an explicit choice. 

It is likely that I am far more informed of standard industry practices for character animation than any other active participant in the Consortium. I am Chair (4th year) of LA ACM SIGGRAPH -- supporting professional in the industry and location where character animation was developed and where its capabilities are pushed to its limits. The Chapter regularly discusses and has presentations from the top modelers, riggers, and animators in the (entertainment) industry. I also had tutoring on the specifics from some animators currently working in the industry, and the post was reviewed by an industry person prior to publication.

So I might be wrong, but I don't really think so.






My opinion is you are not even close to understanding what it is and about what is really going on with data used to build and animate a humanoid or any other skeletal creation. 

How about actually using an X3D browser that does HAnim, the best is BSContact (it used to be that Flux was as good as BSContact) or instant, or any browser using the prototypes we have, and extend yourself to read some of the example code for Segment geometry and skin geometry examples and the actual rigging and animation steps before you write in an authoritative manner. You're understanding is very incomplete and even wrong about details in the article. 


Because my point is not H-Anim. Rigged joint animation is not H-Anim. As the article describes rigged joint animation can just as easily be used for non-humans, non-animals (e.g., trees), or even non-living (e.g., machines) models.






Try the X3D features, read the spec, and actually try some example and you will see X3D is not as incomplete as you think. 


Rigged skin animation is not available for Immersive. This type of animation needs to be available at what amounts to Interchange. X3D is incomplete with regards to this.







HAnim is not that easy to understand, as you have shown in your article. However, X3D HAnim is logical and completely the way it is done everywhere. So, quit making remarks about what X3D doesn't do at least until you actually do something with what we have. 


HAnim is *NOT* the way it is done everywhere. It's only the way it is done in X3D, and even that does not follow the same principles as the industry work.






The only thing you showed in this article is that you haven't read the HAnim spec, 


Because it is NOT about H-Anim -- it is about rigged skin animation. There is absolutely no assumption about the model being rigged.





you have not used the X3D HAnim to build a character, have not looked at any X3D HAnim examples, have not even tried to build anything close to an operating HAnim yourself, have not really understood how those animation authoring systems work, and finally you haven't even asked anyone any meaningful questions about the basic technology. 


^^^^^ All irrelevant to my post.


Leonard Daly


P.S. Right now (X3D V3.3) the biggest problem with H-Anim is that X3D does not support rigged deformable skin animation of joints. It is included in a separate component. My post is showing that this animation capability needs to be included in a standard "profile" (in V3 terminology) of future X3D. That helps H-Anim by providing an easy and existing means to do the animation.








Of course I am open to discussing what is HAnim and how we do it. Just ask. 

All Best, 
Joe 


----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonard Daly"  <mailto:Leonard.Daly at realism.com> <Leonard.Daly at realism.com> 
To: "X3D Public"  <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org> <x3d-public at web3d.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:04 AM 
Subject: [x3d-public] Purpose of X3Dng -- Animation 





My next post on the topic is up at 
http://realism.com/blog/purpose-x3d-animation. This is an explanation of 
how animation is done using rigged models and why it is important to 
include it standard X3D. It does not include node proposals - that will 
take further research and discussion. 

 

 

-- 
Leonard Daly
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/attachments/20161020/712ec0c6/attachment-0001.html>