[x3d-public] CSS bindings for <x3d> ...</x3d>

Sun Feb 5 08:26:19 PST 2017

Joe,

I do not quite follow your message. I am confused and not sure if you 
are expressing a desire for a future release of X3D or X3DOM or are 
reporting an issue where X3DOM fails to meet a specification or X3D is 
deficient.

Looking at these one at a time:
1) X3D is deficient: X3D V3.3 (latest release) was not designed with DOM 
integration. While it does allow the class attribute, it defines no 
specific behavior for any values or even that an X3D browser shall do 
certain things if  certain styles are present. In this case you are 
making a recommendation for a future version of X3D.

2) X3DOM fails to meet a specification: Mostly see (1). There is no 
specification that covers the X3DOM operational environment. In this 
respect, X3DOM is a prototype and meant to explore future possibilities.

3) Future release of X3DOM: This is a reasonable request (*), though I 
am not sure why it was sent to x3d-public as it deals with X3DOM 
development.

4) Future release of X3D: This goes back to (1) and is a reasonable 
request (*), though I am not sure why it was sent to x3dom-users as it 
deals with X3D specification development.

(*) Reasonable request means that it is not so far out of scope of X3D, 
X3DOM, or the general environment of displayed 3D content in web 
browsers. I am not commenting one way or another on whether the request 
is a good or bad idea.

Please let me know if your message address one (or more) of the four 
items listed above or something else entirely.

Thanks,

Leonard Daly

On 2/5/2017 7:05 AM, Joe D Williams wrote:
>> From what I can see <x3d> continues to ignore use of css selectors as 
> an optional author tool with <x3d> user code. We have a connection 
> with the document <script> but not with document <style>.
>
> As for css, I trust that every html author will expect to be able to 
> define an opening scene that is easily changed using css style api.
>
> Since the <x3d> elements are available in the dom, and are accesible 
> by dom api, then of course I ought to be able to realtime style basic 
> elements of a scene using css, and control some or all features of the 
> scene by changing live css user code, or by changing the node @class 
> attribute.
>
> Yes, the above is now for a long time 'native' to css for html5. To 
> me, coverage of css is basic because it is NOW the actual minimum 
> requirement for a conforming html/css/svg/mathml/dom w3c browser.
> To add x3d to that list, <x3d> gotta have <style>.
>
> Yes, live, cascading style is so fundamental to operation of the dom, 
> that css even provides script-free animation techniques. Some of these 
> expose some  <x3d> features, like keyframe interpolation. Just like 
> X3D, implementation of style animation "in" the browser makes 
> performance of this "built-in" stuff kill conventional html dom 
> scripting for similar effects
>
> So, style by class in html hosted content is so basic because its case 
> is so true -
> Authors can use it to distinguish style from content.
>
> This remains true and to the extent that lines between content and 
> style cross. Most of the crossover is actually under control of the 
> author because the dom and css properties of the elements overlap. 
> This gives some suthor flexibility, allowing style to convy content 
> and vice-versa.
>
> Perhaps the greatest contribution of this melding of html and x3d is 
> that Finally, yes FFinally, X3D gets some "Style" which thus far 
> mostly forbidden territory even considering the fact that X3D since 
> inception has included the heretofore unused class attribute. Up to 
> now there has been no great press for css in .x3d - let's face it, css 
> didn't have much back then except fataastic potential to offer our 
> DAG, but .x3d is now facing up to <x3d> in <html> so a New Higher 
> level of X3D htmlization and domification is near.
>
> The only problem is, whatever the x3d elements chosen, the community 
> must define what @class attributes can be controlled by css. For 
> example can you apply the css @hover on a shape or a geometry or does 
> it matter?
>
> Of course I want css for my list of initializeOnly fields!
> Why, because it very easy to author using 'style' sheets instead of 
> building the opening scene in a script that reads a list to generate 
> the opening scene.
> In <x3d> is there any such thing as the 'initializeOnly' field?
> Of course I want css control of any node attribute I can reach with 
> html dom script.
> Actually, for simple stuff I don't want get into scripting the html 
> dom; I'd rather script the css dom.
>
> It is easy to see how a player that does <x3d> can implement a 
> reasonable set of css properties for the x3d nodes and fields that 
> need them. I mean look, html dom and html allowed the css to be 
> domified and cacadiatied thus allowing intimate relationships, deeply 
> changing realtime yet carefully sequenced, directly with some exposed 
> and some internal dom events using very stimulating cascading interfaces.
>
> Is it a complication or an advantage that fields of X3D XML nodes are 
> attributes and so are candidates for <style> treatment?
>
> So, certainly this will get some thought and work, but I stand with 
> the idea of looking at it from the standpoint of what the experienced 
> html/dom/css designer/author/user is going to expect.
>
> For the most part, these authors and their authoring aids depend on 
> DOM and CSS.
>
> <x3d> without total dom and total css integratable with html5 is not 
> really a complete standards-track package.
>
> Thanks and Best,
> Joe
>
>
>
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-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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