[x3d-public] [x3d] No IDREF in HTML5 [was: Abstract X3D Definitions - V3.3: DEF/USE context]

[John Carlson]

How about data-idref as an attribute?

On Jan 26, 2017 1:21 PM, "Don Brutzman" <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:

> On 1/26/2017 7:39 AM, Leonard Daly wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/2017 10:54 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>>
>>> Leonard, good points.. Close inspection seems to show that your
>>> statements regarding duplicate DEFs mostly match the functionality of XML
>>> ID/IDREF type semantics.
>>>
>>
>> Please STOP using 'idref' when referring to anything inside an HTML5
>> document (noted that the above statement does not refer to HTML5 documents).
>>
>
> If we choose to use idref attribute (possibility) or IDREF type (necessary
> for USE) as part of an X3D document within an HTML document, then that it
> is something to not STOP talking about.  Rather is something that needs to
> be well understood, and it relates to X3D context.
>
> My acknowledgement of your prior statements was "Apparently you are
> indicating that we may have a further option of avoiding idref if not
> needed within the DOM."  That refers to idref the attribute maybe not being
> necessary.  Meanwhile IDREF the data type remains relevant in all cases,
> particularly if we keep DEF/USE as independent attributes as part of an X3D
> scene contained within an HTML5 document.
>
> If your precise statement might be that HTML5 and DOM do not explicitly
> utilize any attributes named idref, that is helpful.  HTML5 and DOM
> certainly use id attributes with ID type, and xpath expressions certainly
> include id values, and javascript can access the id values, so referencing
> an id is not a foreign concept.  Indeed the whole point of creating an id
> is to have a unique value that is referencable by other things.
>
> There is no 'idref' defined for all HTML5 elements (
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/html/dom.html#sec-global-attributes). That does
>> not mean that idref might be defined for some elements; however, it would
>> probably not be wise considering the use of idref in the SGML and XML
>> spaces.
>>
>
> Perhaps.  However of note is that SVG Tiny includes it, probably other
> compatible Recommendations as well:
>
> https://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/types.html#DataTypeIDREF
> ============
> <IDREF>
>     The type of value that can be used in an XML attribute of type IDREF
> (such as 'observer'); that is, a string matching the Name production in
> Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.0 ([XML10], section 2.3), or the Name
> production in Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.1 ([XML11], section 2.3)
> if the document is an XML 1.1 document.
> ============
>
> In all of my reading (specs and commentary), I have not found a single use
>> of the X3D concept of USEing (as in providing a separate reference) to
>> another node. The 'appendChild' (and related methods) do not allow multiple
>> parenting. Trying to append a node from someplace else to a new location in
>> the DOM just moves the node in the DOM. If you want more than one
>> reference, you clone the node.
>>
>
> Making sure I understand this statement: presumably the context you are
> referring to is operations on an HTML document via the DOM.
>
> --
>> *Leonard Daly*
>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
>> President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
>>
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzma
> n
>
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