[x3d-public] Future of X3D presentation

Thu Jun 15 15:25:25 PDT 2017

On Jun 15, 2017 2:21 PM, "Leonard Daly" <Leonard.Daly at realism.com> wrote:

John,

In Cobweb, all X3D nodes are not DOM elements. I know this to be the case
because there are structural and node name conflicts with HTML. So what is
really being discussed here is Andreas' extension to Cobweb. I feel that
this is an important distinction to make because someone getting just
Cobweb would not have DOM access. I encourage Cobweb to bring Andreas'
extensions into its code.

I think Holger is in principle open to this as we had initially considered
the idea. It was just more convenient to develop cobweb_dom separately at
least until it reached some level of maturity. I also do not want to burden
Holger with potential maintenance.
>From my side I do not have any objections to bundle cobweb_dom with cobweb.

Andreas

I agree that preprocessing X3D Script into HTML JavaScript is a very viable
path forward for legacy content, though I don't think people will create
new content in that manner. Making everything look and act like HTML is the
big goal and challenge.

There are significant differences between the event models in DOM and X3D.
It is more than creation of new events or event handlers.

The requirement to use Proxys needs to be very carefully considered. For
example Chrome only provides full support in V49 -- Released in March 2016.
Many corporate environments lock down their desktops and only slowly make
changes. For example, how many computers in the US and UK were hit by the
WannaCrypt virus on computers running Windows XP?

Leonard Daly

Leonard, you can support the Script tag by preprocessing it into
JavaScript.   You don't need eval, you need something like browserify to
preprocess your Scripts into JavaScript scripts.   What is left undone is
the X3D event model, work needs to be done there, but Andreas has shown a
way forward with the "outputchange" event I believe.   Proxies are used for
JavaScript events.

Drink the koolaid.  It tastes good.  Use Cobweb, you might like it.

John

On Jun 14, 2017 10:16 AM, "Leonard Daly" <Leonard.Daly at realism.com> wrote:

> I keep harping on this because no one has yet shown me how this is going
> to happen.
> On page 8 of the notes, item (6): "In principle, all nodes in the
> standard, including scripts and prototypes, can be supported."
>
> The X3D Standard specifies that the node is called "Script" and contains
> children tags.
> HTML has a node called "script" without children tags.
>
> 1) I do not see how the X3D Standard can be supported "in principle" or
> "in practice" to meet the requirements of the statement.
>
> 2) HTML scripts are global and have access to the entire DOM. #5 states
> that nodes appear in the DOM, so from an HTML script I can modify all nodes
> in the DOM, including X3D ones -- this would include X3D Script nodes if a
> way was found to include it.
>
> 3) All scripts in the HTML page occupy the same namespace (that is global
> in scope). From an X3D Script (if one was able to exists), I could access
> all parts of the page, including other scripts, including possibly non-X3D
> scripts.
>
> This is not integrating X3D into HTML; but elbowing aside an X3D bubble
> within the HTML space. If X3D is going to be integrated with the DOM, then
> really integrate it with the environment. If not, then stop using
> integrating and use something like "X3D space in the HTML document"
>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/13/2017 4:41 PM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
>
>
> During the Web3D 2017 Conference in Brisbane Australia,
>>
>>         http://web3d2017.web3d.org/program
>>
>> the following presentation was given:
>>
>>         The Future of X3D
>>         Roy Walmsley and Don Brutzman
>>         How will the X3D standard adapt to HTML5 and virtual and
>> augmented reality on the web?
>>
>> Presentation
>> http://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3D%20Version%
>> 204/FutureOfX3D.pdf
>>
>> Detailed notes
>> http://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3D%20Version%
>> 204/FutureOfX3dWeb3d2017June7.pdf
>>
>> Photograph by Paul Grimm showing off the incredible venue at Queensland
>> University of Technology (qut.edu.au) for Web3D 2017:
>> http://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/image/wg/X3D%20Vers
>> ion%204/PresentationPanoramaFutureOfX3dPaulGrimm20170607_135
>> 611.1600x492.jpg
>>
>> These links are maintained on the following key page:
>>
>>         X3D Version 4
>>         http://www.web3d.org/x3d4
>>
>> Twitter announcement:
>> https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/874662520270708737
>>
>> All questions, dialog and insights are welcome.  This presentation
>> distills much effort and hopefully provides a helpful basis for continuing
>> progress.
>
>
> Thanks for sharing this thoughtful presentation. The sketch of an
> integrated event model is particularly interesting and I may redraw it in
> an attempt to learn about its workings.
>
> The sketch is also interesting as it must have come as something of a
> relief to an audience listening to what must have been the most text heavy
> presentation at a meeting on 3d graphics ;)
>
> -Andreas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
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>
-- 
*Leonard Daly*
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
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