[x3d-public] [x3dom-users] Cobweb_dom...Script Magic? Loading DOMsubscenesafter parent in X3DOM and Cobweb. ALMOST complete, requiressequencing ofouter functions.

[John Carlson]

In summary, X3D ecmascript and HTML ecmascript are mostly compatible,
except for DOM and SAI.   I believe Cobweb supports both DOM and SAI, but I
could  be corrected.  What is different with X3D are 1) fields and 2)
ROUTEs.   I think we can share the same script tag if fields are added to
HTML scripts, possibly through some kind of extension or conversion.
Fields are currently required for ROUTEs.   If there was a conversion
mechanism for ROUTEs, that would be helpful, and would avoid having to have
fields on scripts.

John

On May 22, 2017 11:20 AM, "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>    1. You don’t have to have HTML script in <script></script>  you can
>    eval them.  You do need X3D Script fields for ROUTES. I am asking for
>    script fields, not script tags.  I am fine with the HTML script node,
>    except I just want fields that I can route to.  If you provide ROUTEs to
>    non-X3D things that would be an OK alternate by me, too, or a just way to
>    convert X3D Script-based ROUTEs to JavaScript.
>    2. Self-modifying scripts are a bad idea. LOL.
>
>
>
> Again, I am not asking for strict X3D Scripts.  I can build an SAI library
> or get one if I want to.  I am asking for a way to ROUTE between X3D and
> JavaScript (and by happy circumstance, JavaScript to JavaScript).  That is
> how you need to keep X3D relevant, if you want to maintain a standard, and
> that’s how you make everyone happy.  If there’s a conversion tool, that’s
> OK by me.  Are you going to write it?
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, May 22, 2017 11:01 AM
> *To: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3dom-users] Cobweb_dom...Script Magic? Loading
> DOMsubscenesafter parent in X3DOM and Cobweb. ALMOST complete,
> requiressequencing ofouter functions.
>
>
>
> On 5/22/2017 7:12 AM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> The Script AND the Proto problem have ben solved in the HTML environment,
> I believe, with Cobweb + Cobweb DOM, or close to it.  See Cobweb 3.2.
>
>
> John,
>
> Script is very far from being solved, and (I believe) unsolvable with the
> constraints of X3D and DOM. These are my reasons.
> 1) There is a name conflict so X3D Script cannot be in the same namespace
> as HTML's Script. HTML only has one namespace
> 2) DOM allows scripts to modify themselves or be modified by other
> scripts. This is not possible in Cobweb or Cobweb_DOM.
>
> 3) If you create a new node called (for example) X3dScript replacing the
> current X3D's Script node you solve (1) and because it's not JavaScript in
> the DOM, (2) is irrelevant. Now a scene has two different scripting
> environments. Even though the code looks to be the same (written in the
> same language), one cannot access fields, methods, properties, etc. of the
> other. They have different calling mechanisms. The X3dScript node code
> cannot respond to HTML events (mouseover, click, typing, etc in HTML
> elements). The HTML/DOM Script code can only interact with X3D elements
> through X3D's SAI. This design would produce an environment that has
> minimal (even less than current X3D) adoption. It would be confusing to
> developers with no obvious reason to the separate design.
>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
> *Sent: *Monday, May 22, 2017 10:06 AM
> *To: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>;
> x3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net; Andreas Plesch
> <andreasplesch at gmail.com>; holger.seelig at yahoo.de
> *Subject: *Re: [x3dom-users] Cobweb_dom...Script Magic? Loading DOM
> subscenesafter parent in X3DOM and Cobweb. ALMOST complete, requires
> sequencing ofouter functions.
>
>
>
> John,
>
> I have not been convinced that Protos need to exist in an HTML
> environment. Scripts are an integral piece of the Proto architecture so if
> you path is to implement Protos on the way to implementing Scripts, you
> need to solve the entire Script problem first. If Scripts are optional,
> then why have Proto? I think something like a macro expansion can solve all
> of the use cases where Proto would be used while being lighter weight and
> easier to implement and possibly use.
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
> Leonard, I believe Scripts should be implemented AFTER Protos.   Just my
> opinion.  Once the Protos and the ROUTEs and the Scripts are expanded with
> the new DEFs, then you apply the event model.   This makes things easier,
> but takes more memory.   Then you optimize.   Beware premature
> optimization.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On May 21, 2017 12:16 AM, "Leonard Daly" <Leonard.Daly at realism.com> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I don't really like to answer this way, but why?
>
> X3DOM does not have Proto/ExternProto feature. It does not have X3D Script
> node. The integration with HTML is too close to allow an X3D Script node.
> HTML JavaScript (via DOM and X3D node manipulation) is available and used
> extensively. X3DOM does not handle VRML (meaning a text file with {}
> syntax). There is an unofficial JSON loader. Perhaps you have one too. How
> does it get the scene graph into DOM? Does it create DOM elements (or
> perhaps an HTML text string which is then parsed)? Something else?
>
> To the extent I understand your question, you are asking for help in
> constructing a means of handling X3D Script node in X3DOM. Once that is
> done, Proto/ExternProto would be next. This would all come into the browser
> through an JSON encoded file. It seems to me that trying to handle X3D
> Script code requires an entire infrastructure supporting the X3D event mode
> and calling script code with X3D arguments. It also requires building full
> support for SAI and supporting the 'directOutput' field. That is a major
> effort with no obvious purpose that I see in V4.
>
> You are asking for some serious time support (I think) into an application
> that is neither fully X3D-compliant, nor DOM-compliant (but the closest to
> both that is available). At least for me, I do not understand how this
> effort would further an X3D integrated DOM system. I am quite willing to
> listen to your reasons and help where I can, but I would like to see where
> this is going first.
>
> Leonard Daly
>
> P.S.  Everything above is for client-side code. Server side code can
> manipulate things as much as it wants to create something that runs in a
> client-side browser.
>
> P.P.S. I do think there is a need to JSON encoding in V4 subject to the
> node definition for V4.
>
>
>
> Yes, Leonard, for quite some time I have an X3D JSON PROTOtypeExpander.js
> that works with X3D PROTOs and EXTERNPROTOs and displays in X3DOM.  I don’t
> know how complete it is, and testers are welcome. My EXTERNPROTO expander
> runs on the server, so is not included in the message, but it is included
> in the link in the original message.  If someone can make the EXTERNPROTO
> expander work client side that would be great.
>
>
>
> The EXTERNPROTO expander is generally called like:
>
>
>
>                 json = externPrototypeExpander(outfile, json);
>
>
>
> Where json is the parent json of the extern, and outfile is the parent X3D
> file being loaded (I think “” will probably do in a pinch.  I am not
> sure.).  The extern PROTOs will be included in the original JSON as a
> ProtoDeclare object.  You may have to run the flattener afterwards, and it
> is run as:
>
>
>
>             json = flattener(json);
>
>
>
> It removes empty objects from the JSON.
>
>
>
> Yes, I would like someone to help me with VRMLScript for X3DOM, if someone
> is available.  I have a very barebones and incorrect implementation here:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/
> master/src/main/node/Script.js
>
>
>
> Please help.  I don’t know the X3D event model, and I’m not likely to
> learn soon.  The X3D event model can be emulated in Browser-side
> JavaScript, but there’s only Cobweb for proof.
>
>
> I have another version of flipper.html here that works with X3DOM and
> Cobweb adding the subscene later.  It works with Promises, but the
> functions still aren’t separated…close, but no cigar.  Take a look:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/
> master/src/main/html/flipper.html
>
>
>
> Sorry, I tend to use the XML version of “Proto”, and not the VRML “PROTO”.
>
>
>
> X3DJSONLD provides an infrastructure for X3D JSON Browser development,
> including X3D XML -> X3D JSON conversion on the server, and X3D JSON to X3D
> XML loading into X3DOM and Cobweb.  It also includes conversions from XML
> DOM to Java and Nashorn JavaScript for X3DJSAIL app development.
>
>
>
> There is definite potential for an XML PROTO expander, as I have written
> this code, but not seriously tested:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/
> CompleteXMLPrototypeExpander.js
>
>
>
> So far, it’s still server-side.  If you’re going to modify it, split it
> into server and client-side pieces, please.  Complete is probably a
> misnomer…
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 20, 2017 7:17 PM
> *To: *John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>; Andreas Plesch
> <andreasplesch at gmail.com>; holger.seelig at yahoo.de
> *Cc: *x3dom-users at lists.sourceforge.net; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3dom-users] Cobweb_dom...Script Magic? Loading DOM
> subscenesafter parent in X3DOM and Cobweb.
>
>
>
> John,
>
> Cobweb_dom, X3DOM experts, I need some help adding a child DOM scenegraph
> with prototypes to a parent DOM scenegraph after the
>
>
> Not sure how any of this applies to X3DOM as it does not have PROTOs.
> Assuming you mean X3D prototypes via PROTO or EXTERNPROTO. If you mean
> something else, please elaborate.
>
>
> Leonard Daly
>
>
> primary scene has been  loaded, and not before. I have an example of
> loading before the scene is loaded, and in a callback.  If you have an
> example with Promises instead of callback nesting, that would be more
> ideal, the second $.getJSON() (child scenegraph) might finish before the
> first $.getJSON() (parent scenegraph) if I don’t use promises or callback
> nesting. Also, Promises would allow me to separate the parent loading
> somewhat from the child loading, and create separate functions.  Also,
> X3DOM experts can provide an example with Promises as well.  Meanwhile, I
> will be reading about Promises.
>
>
>
> Here is my example so far:
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/
> master/src/main/html/flipper.html
>
> Viewable here:
>
> https://coderextreme.net/X3DJSONLD/src/main/html/flipper.html
>
>
>
> The white Box is the subscene of the dolphin scene.
>
>
>
> The following related code is from https://github.com/
> coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/loaderJQuery.js
>
> and references code from:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/
> X3DJSONLD.js
>
> [ actually, I think the last two reference each other – naughty ]
>
>
>
> Data is here:
>
> [ child scenegraph ]
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/
> master/src/main/data/abox.json
>
>
>
> [ parent scenegraph ]
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/data/flipp.
> json
>
>
>
>
>
> Cobweb doesn’t need the prototypeExpander or the flattener (well, it might
> have with prototypes in cobweb_dom, but I think the last release fixed
> that…haven’t checked—here is a good test for you!).  This is a dual
> example, and I haven’t figured out how to conditionally run the
> prototypeExpander on only X3DOM code.  Please test without the
> PrototypeExpander.js and Flattener.js included, and remove X3DOM, since it
> won’t work in that case.  X3DOM folks can include the two JavaScript files
> which are here:
>
>
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/
> PrototypeExpander.js
>
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/
> Flattener.js
>
>
>
>
>
> You may provide your own appendInline (below) which doesn’t call
> loadSchema.  That may be too complex of a download.  That is, you probably
> don’t want to do all that JSON schema validation in your example.  Try to
> keep my code close to what it is otherwise.
>
>
>
> And if you start supporting X3D JSON in your viewers, that would be even
> better!
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> /**
>
> ·         Next is passed the element parameter
>
> ·         */
>
> function appendInline(element, url, next) {
>
>         $.getJSON(url, function(json) {
>
>                 if (typeof prototypeExpander === 'function') {
>
>                         json = prototypeExpander(url, json, "");
>
>                 } else {
>
>                         console.error("Perhaps you need to include the
> PrototypeExpander.js?");
>
>                 }
>
>                 if (typeof flattener === 'function') {
>
>                         json = flattener(json);
>
>                 } else {
>
>                         console.error("Perhaps you need to include the
> Flattener.js?");
>
>                 }
>
>                 // must validate here because we call an inner method.
>
>                 loadSchema(json, url, doValidate, function() {
>
>                         ConvertToX3DOM(json["X3D"]["Scene"], "Scene",
> element, url);
>
>                         next(element);
>
>                 }, function(e) {
>
>                         console.error(e);
>
>                 });
>
>         }).fail(function(jqXHR, textStatus, errorThrown) { alert('getJSON
> request failed! ' + textStatus + ' ' + errorThrown); });
>
> }
>
>
>
> /**
>
> ·         Next is passed the selected element from selector
>
> ·         Selector is the CSS selector to append inline to.
>
> ·         */
>
> function loadSubscene(selector, url, next) {
>
>         appendInline(document.querySelector(selector), url, next);
>
> }
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Leonard Daly*
> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
> President, Daly Realism - *Creating the Future*
>
>
>
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