[x3d-public] [x3d] X3D Mantis subgroup Meeting Monday 5 March 2018: minutes for HAnim task review

Mon Mar 5 10:58:46 PST 2018

1. Note: prior parent email had incorrect subject line, that parent email actually recorded minutes for 28 FEB 2018.

On 2/28/2018 10:04 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
> Attendees: Puk and Brutzman.  9 issues handled today (0800-1000 pacific).
> 
> Looking ahead: no specification editors call on Thursday.  Next Monday March 5 we will meet 10-11 pacific.  We will shift focus on HAnim specification review, there is a list of TODO items to consider.
> 
> Minutes follow.  Member participation is always welcome!

2. We met today to look at action items left from recent HAnim specification editing.

Attendees: Puk and Brutzman.  Acknowledgements to Roy Walmsley for maintaining these lists following joint editing efforts with Myeong Won Lee.

3. Tasks  complete Part 1 of H-Anim 19774:

https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/H-Anim/tree/master/ISO-IEC%2019774/ISO-IEC%2019774-1/ISO-IEC%2019774-1%20V2.0/ISO-IEC%2019774-1%20V2.0%20DIS%20Prep/Working%20documents

==============================
01	Describe the technical reason for the existence of the joints, segments, and sites fields in the Humanoid object. Add material to the appropriate paragraphs in clause 6.2.
02	Resolve the inconsistencies in the differences of segment names between LOA-1 and higher LOAs. There are two obvious candidate solutions:
  a)	Keep the differences but explain them in the text.
  b)	Change the names so that they match
03	Review Table 4.7, making any necessary amendments to the site allocations
04	In Annex A add missing joints to Tables A2, A.4, A.6, A.8, and A.10, including the necessary suggested values for the center field.
05	In Annex A check and amend as necessary Tables A.3, A.5, A.7, A.9, and A.11, the suggested Site object translation field values.
06	Update all the VRML examples in Annex A, ensuring that they conform to all the normative aspects of this standard. Ensure the data agrees with that of the updated suggested values (Tasks o4 and 05) in the Tables in this Annex.
07	In Annex F update the example in clause F.2 to conform to this standard.
08	Review and amend as necessary Table F.2.
09	Decide if we want an LOA field in the Humanoid object
10	Consider adding description fields to all the objects
==============================

11 Add "loa" field to Humanoid node describing Level Of Articulation (LOA) of contained skeleton, so that Motion nodes might be more easily composed.

4. Tasks to complete Part 2 of H-Anim 19774:

https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/H-Anim/tree/master/ISO-IEC%2019774/ISO-IEC%2019774-2/ISO-IEC%2019774-2%20V2.0/ISO-IEC%2019774-2%20V2.0%20DIS%20Prep/Working%20Documents

==============================
01	Consider adding, in 4.1.3 (and also Part 1) "Alternate equivalent rotation schemes are possible (for example, quaternions). For interoperability, any such alternate implementation of HAnim rotations would need to include unambiguous conversion algorithms to rotation axis/angle representations.
02	Find a good Bibliography reference for "Motion retargetting"?
03	Annex B: The example needs to be updated to conform to LOA‑1. It needs vl1 changing to vl5, and vc4 removing.
04	Annex C: Editor's note: This example does NOT conform to LOA-1. It needs sacroiliac moving to the correct position in the hierarchy and has metatarsophalangeal joints which are not in LOA-1.
05	Annex D: The first example does NOT conform to LOA‑1. It needs sacroiliac moving to the correct position in the hierarchy, ankle updating to talocrural, midtarsal updating to metatarsophalangeal, vl5 moving to the correct position in the hierarchy, and wrist updating to radiocarpal.
06	Annex D: The second example needs to be reviewed for conformance with LOA‑1,  and amended as necessary.
07	Annexes B, C, and D – Improve examples, to demonstrate the different aspects each is intended to portray,  adding introductory text to explain them.
   B. User-defined general keyframe animation
   C. Motion capture animation using interpolators
   D. Motion capture animation using motion object
==============================

Missing:

08 Recommendation to rename the current name "H-Anim" to "HAnim" since including a hyphen means the term is not searchable in most online systems.  (For example, the Twitter handle is #HAnim to allow search.)

09 Add "loa" field to Motion node describing Level Of Articulation (LOA) of contained interpolation, so that Motion nodes might be more easily composed.

5. Some of these issues require specification prose and annex additions.  Some are technical and require further work, and might be best resolved via email dialog and Mantis issues to track such work.

Many of the issues on these two lists are suitable as Web3D Consortium comments in the forthcoming ISO ballots for parts 1 and 2.

We suggest reviewing and handling these twenty issues as part of the next HAnim Working Group teleconference, currently scheduled for Wednesday 8 March 17-1900 pacific (8 March morning Korea).

The lack of clarity and consistency between ISO and Web3D procedures remains a problem.

6. Wednesday morning's X3D working group meeting: we plan to continue on Mantis issue tracking efforts, as follows, during the next X3D Working Group teleconference on this Wednesday 7 March 08-1000 pacific.

> On 2/27/2018 11:21 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>>[...]
>> All X3D Working Group members are welcome to attend.  Connection details at
>>
>>      Web3D Teleconference Information
>>      http://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>
>> On 2/15/2018 5:32 AM, Roy Walmsley wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> =======================================================================================================
>>>
>>> *_B. Discussion Topics_*
>>>
>>>  1. _Triage of new Mantis issues_
>>>
>>> Mantis 1209 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1209 – 19775-1, 13.3.5 Extrusion - Tesselation of quadrilaterals missing for various nodes
> 
> Updated issue, sent inquiry to public list.

Multiple responses, thanks everyone.  We will review and integrate key points (plus links and credit) into Mantis.
[...]
>>> Mantis 1214 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1214 – 19775-1, 21.4.2 StringSensor - OS clipboard copying to/from StringSensor
> 
> Added notes.  Separately posted to x3d-public list.
> http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1214

Multiple responses, thanks everyone.  We will review and integrate key points (plus links and credit) into Mantis.

> [...]
> Unhandled today:
> 
>>> Mantis 1218 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1218 – 19775-1, 7.2.4 Metadata - New node type
>>>
>>>  2. _Triage of older Mantis issues still at status New_
>>>
>>> Mantis 787 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=787 – 19776-1, 5.6 SFFloat and MFFloat - Encoding of real numbers
>>>
>>> Mantis 786 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=786 – 19775-1, 34.3.1 X3DEnvironmentTextureNode - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 785 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=785 – 19775-1, 28.3.6 TransmitterPdu - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 784 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=784 – 19775-1, 28.3.5 SignalPdu - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 783 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=783 – 19775-1, 28.3.4 ReceiverPdu - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 782 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=782 – 19775-1, 28.3.3 EspduTransform - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 781 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=781 – 19775-1, 28.3.2 DISEntityTypeMapping - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 780 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=780 – 19775-1, 25.3.11 GeoViewpoint - Inconsistent hierarchy
>>>
>>> Mantis 778 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=778 – 19775-1, Clause 38 - Inconsistent name and title
>>>
>>> Mantis 777 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=777 – 19775-1, 13.3.3.5.3 Algorithmic description - Algorithm not precision dependent
>>>
>>> Mantis 776 - http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=776  - 19775-1, 26 Humanoid animation (H-Anim) component - Component levels
>>>
>>> =======================================================================================================

all the best, Don
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br       brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA   +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman