[x3d-public] HAnim and glTF skins

Thu Nov 29 09:38:24 PST 2018

My guess is the rig + bvh + something is what we need for the skin
deformations.   This is the first time I’ve tried to animate a human, but
I’ve done some head shots.

On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 10:02 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:

> PS I loved this little tool for making humans
> http://www.makehumancommunity.org/
> and used the humans in blender for static shot raytrace
> https://sites.google.com/site/commutar/
> - see human shots near bottom
> x but the export options don't include glTF or x3d
> *
> https://github.com/makehumancommunity/makehuman
> * collada .dae
> * filmbox .fbx
> * makehuman exchange (mhx2
> * wavefront obj
> * ogre 3D
> * Stereolithography (stl)
> Rig format
> * Biovision Hierarch BVH
>
> Q1. what do you guys use?
> Q2. should makehuman export something we like, and if so what?
> Thanks, Doug Sanden (freewrl)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2018 at 7:34 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> My interest was in supporting animation in glTF inlines  in x3dom. With
>> basic animation pretty much solved as TimeSensor/Interpolator/Route combos,
>> the next step is skinned animation. Since HAnim is actually not strictly
>> limited to humanoids (if the H is ignored), it appears more and more
>> feasible to use it to represent glTF skins and skeletons in a fairly
>> complete manner. At least this is what my first manual translations
>> suggest. I am not familiar with other skinned animation systems but most
>> can export glTF.
>>
>> Another feature in glTF are morph targets which are independent of skins.
>> They are similar to HAnim displacers but I have not looked very closely if
>> it is possible to define a mapping between them.
>>
>> One difference is that morph targets can be used outside of a joint
>> hierarchy (skeleton) in glTF whereas displacers are confined to joints and
>> segments within a x3d skeleton. Until displacers are released into the
>> wild, it would mean that glTF meshes with morph targets have to be wrapped
>> in a humanoid node. This seems possible.
>>
>> Implementing HAnim vertex wise deformation ultimately needs to be in
>> vertex shaders. This may actually mean using a glTF skin representation
>> since it is perhaps more shader friendly.
>>
>> -Andreas
>>
>> ---on the phone---
>>
>>>
>>> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:35:17 -0800
>>> From: Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly at realism.com>
>>> To: x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] HAnim and glTF skins
>>> Message-ID: <20125083-023f-b96a-6586-ab8e6d3ea128 at realism.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> Andreas,
>>>
>>> I have read all of the messages with this subject. I am responding to
>>> the first one because I think that is best where my question arises.
>>>
>>> Are you working on an understanding and implementation of H-Anim skinned
>>> animation in X3D or the more general animation of skinned surfaces that
>>> is done in Maya/Blender/+ in most every other application/use?
>>>
>>> If you are doing the more general case would it make more sense to get a
>>> good understanding of the process and work-flow that is used in those
>>> applications and practices?
>>>
>>> If the intent is to use H-Anim with X3D, you will need to resolve the
>>> differences between X3D V3.3/H-Anim V1.0 and X3D V4 (not yet in
>>> existence)/H-Anim V2.0 (perhaps); as you have noted in one of the other
>>> messages in this chain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Leonard Daly
>>>
>>>
>>> > I am collecting information on these skinning systems here:
>>> >
>>> > https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/HAnim-and-glTF-skins
>>> >
>>> > [This is a editable wiki if anybody wants to add to it]
>>> >
>>> > It looks like the less well known
>>> >
>>> > jointBindingPositions/Rotations/Scales and skinBindingCoords/Normals
>>> >
>>> > fields used for non-humanoid skeletons may be useful but I am not
>>> > certain how to interprete those fields. Castle may not implement those
>>> > as a search did not find a match ?
>>> >
>>> > My understanding is that the transformation matrix defined by these
>>> > fields needs to applied before joint trafos are applied. But to which
>>> > vertices ? The ones listed in skinBindingCoords for sure (if they are
>>> > indexed by skinIndex field in the joint) but how does
>>> > skinBindingCoords and skinCoords field interact ? Does the
>>> > skinBindingCoords field take precedence ? But why then have both
>>> > fields in the first place ?
>>> >
>>> > Could the jointBinding fields equivalently be replaced by a sub-Joint
>>> > node under the joint the fields map to ?
>>> >
>>> > Is there an example using these fields ?
>>> >
>>> > Thanks,
>>> >
>>> > -Andreas
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Leonard Daly*
>>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
>>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
>>> President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Leonard Daly
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:35 PM
>>> To: x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] HAnim and glTF skins
>>>
>>> Andreas,
>>>
>>> I have read all of the messages with this subject. I am responding to
>>> the first one because I think that is best where my question arises.
>>>
>>> Are you working on an understanding and implementation of H-Anim skinned
>>> animation in X3D or the more general animation of skinned surfaces that is
>>> done in Maya/Blender/+ in most every other application/use?
>>>
>>> If you are doing the more general case would it make more sense to get a
>>> good understanding of the process and work-flow that is used in those
>>> applications and practices?
>>>
>>> If the intent is to use H-Anim with X3D, you will need to resolve the
>>> differences between X3D V3.3/H-Anim V1.0 and X3D V4 (not yet in
>>> existence)/H-Anim V2.0 (perhaps); as you have noted in one of the other
>>> messages in this chain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Leonard Daly
>>>
>>> I am collecting information on these skinning systems here:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/wiki/HAnim-and-glTF-skins
>>>
>>> [This is a editable wiki if anybody wants to add to it]
>>>
>>> It looks like the less well known
>>>
>>> jointBindingPositions/Rotations/Scales and skinBindingCoords/Normals
>>>
>>> fields used for non-humanoid skeletons may be useful but I am not
>>> certain how to interprete those fields. Castle may not implement those
>>> as a search did not find a match ?
>>>
>>> My understanding is that the transformation matrix defined by these
>>> fields needs to applied before joint trafos are applied. But to which
>>> vertices ? The ones listed in skinBindingCoords for sure (if they are
>>> indexed by skinIndex field in the joint) but how does
>>> skinBindingCoords and skinCoords field interact ? Does the
>>> skinBindingCoords field take precedence ? But why then have both
>>> fields in the first place ?
>>>
>>> Could the jointBinding fields equivalently be replaced by a sub-Joint
>>> node under the joint the fields map to ?
>>>
>>> Is there an example using these fields ?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Andreas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Leonard Daly
>>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
>>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair
>>> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future
>>>
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