[x3d-public] X3D Working Group meeting 19 OCT 2018 minutes: X3D Semantic Web working group, Water/mirrors, etc.
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
brutzman at nps.edu
Fri Oct 19 10:36:51 PDT 2018
Attendees: John Carlson, Anita Havele, Michalis Kamburelis, Vince Marchetti, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
Provided inputs, attendance regrets: Leslie Sikos, Jakub Flotynski.
0. Review of prior meeting minutes:
X3D Working Group minutes 12 October 2018 (updated)
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2018-October/009498.html
Approved. Followup mail threads are always great to review and continue discussion as well.
These meeting minutes also checked for releasability to public - no member-only information is included here.
==============================
1. Breakout work teleconference reports, schedule maintained current at
Web3D Calendar
http://www.web3d.org/calendar
Web3D Teleconference Information
http://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
a. HAnim table and examples review, Joe Williams and Don Brutzman meet Mondays 1500-1630.
HAnim work review meeting minutes - lots of checking/improvements needed on example scenes and tables (final)
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2018-October/009504.html
Lots of elbow grease on examples, tool support, implementation of HAnim v2.0 draft international specification.
HAnim working group issue identified: seems contrary to LOA intent to have 76 HAnimSite nodes specified as part of LOA-0.
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b. ISO Specification editors work - teleconference Tuesdays 1500-1630.
Dick and Don are taking a hard look at whether the revision to X3D ECMAScript SAI 19777-1 matches the general 1977-2 Scene Access Interface (SAI).
X3D SAI was recently updated to v3.3 several years ago, ISO approval as IS in 2015. It appears to be quite excellent, we have only found quite minor errata there.
Web3D Recommended Standards
http://www.web3d.org/standards
ISO/IEC 19775-2:2015, V3.3, X3D Abstract : Scene Authoring Interface (SAI) International Standard
http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-2/V3.3/index.html
Github specification draft, X3D ECMAScript SAI
X3D/ISO-IEC 19777/ISO-IEC 19777-1/ISO-IEC 19777-1 V3.3/ISO-IEC 19777-1 V3.3 DIS Prep/
https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/tree/master/ISO-IEC%2019777/ISO-IEC%2019777-1/ISO-IEC%2019777-1%20V3.3/ISO-IEC%2019777-1%20V3.3%20DIS%20Prep
Any Web3D Consortium member who wants access to the github specification can request that access for their account be added.
Github: Web3D Consortium
"Web3D Consortium prepares international standards for 3D graphics. Consortium members can request access to contribute. Learn more and join at web3d.org."
https://github.com/Web3DConsortium
TODO ensure these directions for access are visible on web3D.org - membership has value! Done... added github links to
Web3D Page Standards Adoption Process
http://www.web3d.org/standards/adoption-process
Web3D Member Benefits
http://www.web3d.org/member-benefits
==============================
c. JavaScript/Java/JSON/Python, John Carlson and Don Brutzman meet Wednesdays 1400-1530.
John and I took another hard look at John's implementation of java javascript (jjs) using Java nashorn engine in X3DJSAIL. Fixed some build bugs, all unit tests now working cleanly.
Various Javascript X3D implementations - all different, apparently.
- X3DJSONLD maps to DOM
- jjs binding to X3DJSAIL classes
- possible Node.js binding to X3DJSAIL classes
- apparently X3DOM and X_ITE are each quite different as well
The X3D ECMAScript Specification appears to only be used for X3D Script nodes, not in any standalone or server-based javascript implementations. Perhaps unsurprising, there are a lot of ways to use Javascript.
- X3D player implementations of Script node are well tested and mostly all work well.
- Nevertheless we do have a very stable JSON encoding that is easily used and shared by any of the various javascript implementations.
Python binding to X3DJSAIL is certainly possible, John has done that. Our next weekly call will keep working towards X3D Python Language Binding syntax.
==============================
2. X3D Semantic Web working group formation
a. draft charter points: excellent discussion
- Michalis will look at possibility making a mirror of our sourceforge infrastructure on Github.
- If that looks worthwhile, creating a new open account for X3D usage there should be free.
- Don concerned about production flow afterwards, there is a lot of build administration to consider.
Updates including today's discussion attached.
b. Creating website location for further work, preparing for Board of Directors review:
We will work on moving the current (attached) point paper
http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-semantic-web-working-group-charter-issues-draft
Preparing for next steps and continued dialog welcome. Next week we will review what else is needed for a proposal to Board of Directors.
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3. Continued review X3D Specification Status Timeline
Good discussion, renamed "tracks A and B" for clarity
a. Web3D ISO Current Specifications Timeline
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PgBMqQX4_YVV5nI7Cf2p14Q2RbPsHnuD3sqWNRbQduY
b. Web3D ISO Future Specifications Timeline
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DnQyy5aZfEY9iEz2BckO2AMwx2L_XNpl1iOunG-EaE4
Great progress! Many thanks. We will include these on our regular weekly agenda.
TODO two requests for next week, please:
- update missing dates
- correlate to Web3D procedures
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4. Review of new Mantis issues - none critical for today. We pressed ahead to the next cool topic!
==============================
5. Michalis reflections and water: discussion of implementation and next steps
Water and mirrors using X3D and Castle Game Engine
http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2018-October/009487.html
Listed on
X3D version 4.0 Development
http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_version_4.0_Development#Candidate_Capabilities
Suggested additions to X3D specification:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
https://castle-engine.io/x3d_extensions_mirror_plane.php
add RenderedTexture, ViewpointMirror and TextureCoordinateGenerator.mode = MIRROR-PLANE
Shape {
appearance Appearance {
texture RenderedTexture {
dimensions [ 1024 1024 3 ]
viewpoint ViewpointMirror { }
repeatS FALSE
repeatT FALSE
update "ALWAYS"
}
}
geometry IndexedFaceSet {
coord Coordinate { point [ 0 0 0, 100 0 0, 100 100 0, 0 100 0, ] }
coordIndex [ 0 1 2 3 ]
texCoord TextureCoordinateGenerator { mode "MIRROR-PLANE" }
}
}
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Discussion questions - totally helpful!
a. How might this capability modify the X3Dv4 specifications?
b. How is it different from Environmental Texture Component and Texturing Component?
c. How implementable is it by other players? Mirrors considered straightforward.
d. Is shader support necessary? Shader capabilities are internally necessary for all modern X3D players.
e. Might these techniques relate to inclusion of shadows? Not really, separately defined and implemented.
f. If ViewpointMirror node only appears within RenderedTexture, might it be directly incorporated instead.
g. Are prismatic effects possible and relevant in this context?
h. Might these techniques relate to proposed Projective Texture Mapping (PTM) capabilities? Possibly...
TODO where is PTM linked? Need to get this material exposed.
==============================
6. Future meeting topics:
Each week we'll continue to completion on past topics and then add new topics.
a. Request review, provide updates to node support list for various X3D players
b. Specifically review X3DOM node coverage and gaps (Andreas can you join us for that?)
c. Projective Texture Mapping (PTM) update, discussion
d. Physically Based Rendering update, discussion (Timo can you join us for that?)
==============================
Once again, tremendous insight and progress as we all work together. Thanks everyone.
Membership has value. If you are not a member, if you want to support open standards on the Web for 3D, and especially if you want to be part of X3D Semantic Web Working Group, it is very important to join.
Join the Web3D Consortium
http://www.web3d.org/join
Have fun with X3D! 8)
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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