[x3d-public] HAnim work review meeting minutes - lots of checking/improvements needed on example scenes and tables (DRAFT)
Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)
brutzman at nps.edu
Tue Oct 23 08:36:38 PDT 2018
Thanks for the insights Andreas.
I hope we can figure out how to get some portions of X3DOM in motion again. Historical priorities of earlier Fraunhofer team no longer seem very relevant.
I suspect that collectively our community has is already well past the point where efforts spent on X3DOM-limitation workarounds far exceed the level of work needed simply to make X3DOM more compliant with X3D specification.
On 10/23/2018 4:22 AM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
> my guess is that ProximitySensor was not considered a priority for performance reasons.
>
> There is an alternative viewpointchanged dom event which does not check for proximity and provides the current position/orientation of the avatar.
>
> -Andreas
>
>
>
>
> ---on the phone---
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 6:18 PM Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
>
> Andreas, we are working through examples... will diff to these as we get to them.
>
> meanwhile wondering, why is it hard to have ProximitySensor in X3DOM? is fixing that support a possibility?
>
>
>
> On 10/17/2018 6:00 AM, Andreas Plesch wrote:
> > Since x3dom does not have ProximitySensor, I adjusted examples here:
> >
> > https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/tree/HAnim_work/test/functional/HAnim
> >
> > Specficically these scenes:
> >
> > <option>19774-2V2AnnexC_Jin2.x3d</option>
> > <option>AllenDutton2.x3d</option>
> > <option>DiamondManLOA0_Segments.x3d</option>
> > <option>HAnimSpecificationLOA3Illustrated.x3d</option>
> > <option>HAnimSpecificationLOA3Invisible.x3d</option>
> > <option>HAnimSpecificationLOA3Motion.x3d</option>
> > <option>1Jin_new20130730.x3d</option>
> > <option>JoeHAnimKick1a.x3d</option>
> > <option>JoeSkinTexcoordDisplacerKick.x3d</option>
> > <option>DiamondManLOA_0_joints2trafo.x3d</option>
> > <option>Lucy_test0b.x3d</option>
> > <option>lucy_test3b.x3d</option>
> > <option>BoxManJoeAnim.x3d</option>
> > <option>BoxManC.x3d</option>
> >
> > -Andreas
> >
> >> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:44:27 +0000
> >> From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>>
> >> To: Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>>, "Humanoid Animation
> >> (H-Anim) Working Group" <h-anim at web3d.org <mailto:h-anim at web3d.org>>
> >> Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
> >> Subject: [x3d-public] HAnim work review meeting minutes - lots of
> >> checking/improvements needed on example scenes and tables (DRAFT)
> >> Message-ID: <9c988078-a9c1-3473-8481-797f9fd73d62 at nps.edu <mailto:9c988078-a9c1-3473-8481-797f9fd73d62 at nps.edu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Joe and I had another excellent, wide-ranging review today.
> >>
> >> Conclusion: much work is needed to ensure that HAnim Architecture v2 updates are applied to example scenes and data tables.
> >>
> >> Suggestion: everyone should also read Joe's "General Progress" email today.
> >>
> >> Work lists follow.
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> 1. *Things we checked*
> >>
> >> X3D Example Archives: Basic, Humanoid Animation
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/
> >>
> >> ISO/IEC DIS 19774, Humanoid animation (H-Anim) ? Part 1: Architecture
> >> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/HAnimArchitecture.html
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> a. HAnimHumanoid version is indeed HAnim 2.0, as listed in 6.2 Humanoid. Hooray something worked!
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> b. FWIW, I don't like the protos in the specification because they include geometry - thus they can't be re-used anywhere.
> >>
> >> The X3D Examples archive instead has reusable prototypes with a "children" fields for customizing skeletons in the following model:
> >>
> >> HAnim Prototypes
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypesIndex.html
> >>
> >> However the prototypes have simple names.
> >> - Index for ProtoDeclare definitions : Displacer, Humanoid1_1, Joint, Segment, Site
> >>
> >> These should be prepended "HAnim" to match the X3D nodes:
> >> - Index for ProtoDeclare definitions : HAnimDisplacer, HAnimHumanoid, HAnimJoint, HAnimSegment, HAnimSite
> >>
> >> *Actions*: Don will
> >> - save out the the old file as 1_1 (and change Humanoid1_1 to HAnimHumanoid)
> >> - save modified version for version 2.0
> >> - confirm/correct all node signatures correct
> >> - cosmetic improvements to chapter directory: number each item for quick reference of long lists
> >> - cosmetic improvements to pretty print: left justification of index sections for readability
> >> - look at all the DEF labels (provided as documentation)
> >>
> >> These are testable in combination with the two "Proto Instance" scenes for Allen Dutton and Nancy.
> >> - I will also look at whether some model renaming can make these easier to find.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> c. AllenDutton.x3D failed in X3DOM because ProximitySensor isn't available in X3DOM.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> d. Wondering whether/how to keep track of what browsers work for each HAnim model?
> >>
> >> For each scene that we fix and confirm correct, we will also make a list of which players work. "X3D Players HAnim Support" or somesuch.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> e. DiamondManLOA0,1,2 .x3d models need to be checked
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> f. DiamondManLOA03.x3d and DiamondManLOA04.x3d need to be added.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> g. Why are 76 Site nodes provided for LOA-0, event though it only has one renderable Joint?
> >>
> >> Conceivably an interchange skin with geometry at each Site might be provided, matching each Site location.
> >>
> >> Looks like those sites need to get added to the HAnim DiamondManLOA0,1,2 examples.
> >>
> >> Joe has an example that might serve... we will keep going on that.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> h. We need to create new tables for HAnim version 2, matching those in
> >>
> >> H-Anim Tables of Names and Features
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/tables/tables.html
> >>
> >> Action: I will save out existing tables as both version 1 and version 2, then we will work on confirming or correcting the version 2 tables.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> i. Joe has a sophisticated LOA 4 scene, we will work our way up the mountain to get there!
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> 2. *Specification comments*
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> Humanoid animation (H-Anim) Part 1: Architecture Annex A (informative)
> >> Nominal human body dimensions and levels of articulation (LOAs)
> >> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA0Examples
> >>
> >> Multiple occurrences of "humanoidBody" should be "skeleton" to match clause 6.2 Humanoid.
> >>
> >> Dick, how do you want to keep track of comments like this against HAnim DIS?
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> (cough cough) having fun with HAnim!
> >>
> >> all the best, Don
> >> --
> >> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> >> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> >> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 23:53:23 +0000
> >> From: "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>>
> >> To: Joe D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>>, "Humanoid Animation
> >> (H-Anim) Working Group" <h-anim at web3d.org <mailto:h-anim at web3d.org>>
> >> Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>>
> >> Subject: [x3d-public] HAnim work review meeting minutes - lots of
> >> checking/improvements needed on example scenes and tables (final)
> >> Message-ID: <acec941c-a2c4-88fa-cd7e-8d826257ac14 at nps.edu <mailto:acec941c-a2c4-88fa-cd7e-8d826257ac14 at nps.edu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Joe and I had another excellent, wide-ranging review today.
> >>
> >> Conclusion: much work is needed to ensure that HAnim Architecture v2 updates are applied to example scenes and data tables.
> >>
> >> Suggestion: everyone should also read Joe's "General Progress" email today.
> >>
> >> Work lists follow.
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> 1. *Things we checked*
> >>
> >> X3D Example Archives: Basic, Humanoid Animation
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/
> >>
> >> ISO/IEC DIS 19774, Humanoid animation (H-Anim) ? Part 1: Architecture
> >> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/HAnimArchitecture.html
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> a. HAnimHumanoid version is indeed HAnim 2.0, as listed in 6.2 Humanoid. Hooray something worked!
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> b. FWIW, I don't like the protos in the specification because they include geometry - thus they can't be re-used anywhere.
> >>
> >> The X3D Examples archive instead has reusable prototypes with a "children" fields for customizing skeletons in the following model:
> >>
> >> HAnim Prototypes
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypesIndex.html
> >>
> >> However the prototypes have simple names.
> >> - Index for ProtoDeclare definitions : Displacer, Humanoid1_1, Joint, Segment, Site
> >>
> >> These should be prepended "HAnim" to match the X3D nodes:
> >> - Index for ProtoDeclare definitions : HAnimDisplacer, HAnimHumanoid, HAnimJoint, HAnimSegment, HAnimSite
> >>
> >> *Actions*: Don will
> >> - save out the the old file as 1_1 (and change Humanoid1_1 to HAnimHumanoid)
> >> - save modified version for version 2.0
> >> - confirm/correct all node signatures correct
> >> - cosmetic improvements to chapter directory: number each item for quick reference of long lists
> >> - cosmetic improvements to pretty print: left justification of index sections for readability
> >> - look at all the DEF labels (provided as documentation)
> >>
> >> These are testable in combination with the two "Proto Instance" scenes for Allen Dutton and Nancy.
> >> - I will also look at whether some model renaming can make these easier to find.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> c. AllenDutton.x3D failed in X3DOM because ProximitySensor isn't available in X3DOM.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> d. Wondering whether/how to keep track of what browsers work for each HAnim model?
> >>
> >> For each scene that we fix and confirm correct, we will also make a list of which players work. "X3D Players HAnim Support" or somesuch.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> e. DiamondManLOA0,1,2 .x3d models need to be checked
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> f. DiamondManLOA03.x3d and DiamondManLOA04.x3d need to be added.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> g. Why are 76 Site nodes provided for LOA-0, event though it only has one renderable Joint?
> >>
> >> Conceivably an interchange skin with geometry at each Site might be provided, matching each Site location.
> >>
> >> Looks like those sites need to get added to the HAnim DiamondManLOA0,1,2 examples.
> >>
> >> Joe has an example that might serve... we will keep going on that.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> h. We need to create new tables for HAnim version 2, matching those in
> >>
> >> H-Anim Tables of Names and Features
> >> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/tables/tables.html
> >>
> >> Action: I will save out existing tables as both version 1 and version 2, then we will work on confirming or correcting the version 2 tables.
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> i. Joe has a sophisticated LOA 4 scene, we will work our way up the mountain to get there!
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> 2. *Specification comments*
> >>
> >> =======================
> >>
> >> Humanoid animation (H-Anim) Part 1: Architecture Annex A (informative)
> >> Nominal human body dimensions and levels of articulation (LOAs)
> >> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA0Examples
> >>
> >> Multiple occurrences of "humanoidBody" should be "skeleton" to match clause 6.2 Humanoid.
> >>
> >> Dick, how do you want to keep track of comments like this against HAnim DIS?
> >>
> >> ================================================================================
> >> ================================================================================
> >>
> >> (cough cough) having fun with HAnim!
> >>
> >> all the best, Don
> >> --
> >> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> >> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> >> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> x3d-public mailing list
> >> x3d-public at web3d.org <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> >> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of x3d-public Digest, Vol 115, Issue 17
> >> *******************************************
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
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