[x3d-public] [Semantics] X3D Semantic Web Working Group 14 MAR2019: structural and conceptual semantics, semantic mapping MINUTES

Tue Apr 2 17:49:32 PDT 2019

Here’s some more buzzword generated phrases:

Systems Generator (computer science generator)
Systems Assembly
Assembly Systems (instead of assembly lines)
Assembly Planets
Planet Recognizer (like a self-driving car, Kepler space telescope)
Systems Recognizer
Recognizer Generator
Generator Recognizer

Management Systems
Maintenance Systems

Systems Management
Systems Maintenance

World Management
World Maintenance

Now you know where Elon Musk is getting his ideas from.

How do we build a generator recognizer? Lexer/parser/convolution neural networks.  What if what we are recognizing is chaotic?
How do we build a recognizer generator (autobuild parsers/lexers/CNNs)? How do we bring chaotic semantics and chaotic semiotics into this?

I don’t think we should limit ourselves to parsers and lexers.  We should be focused on recognizing systems, or systems templates, or step up a level to worlds.  This is a couple of levels above the AI “scripts” of the 70s.    And likely around the level of AI actors, but more like the social networks of the 2000s

Let’s step out of the encoding/schema/standards/language/document world, and start talking about the X3D systems, X3D networks, and X3D worlds.  Let’s plan it before it just happens (or happens without us).

If this helps, I think of the generator as the teacher, and the recognizer as the student.  The systems in this case are systems of thinking and doing.

You can think of the generator as the priest and the recognizer as the adherent.  The systems in this case are belief systems.

How do we recognize a X3D world? Does it have a “look and feel”?  By an extension on the filename?

I would like to work on Management and Maintenance Systems or Worlds, in particular those dealing with Query (where did we see this before, and what did we do?), Uncertainty or Probability.  This is because I have one customer, and a small amount of data.  I think I can get more information if I can collect system logs from many systems.  This is a fairly new area for me. Have we thought of how people manage X3D worlds?  Have we collected information on this?   What about maintenance?   Michalis?  Gina? Anyone else? How can we coordinate ideas on maintenance?

How do we fit that into SP-ARK?

Where am I taking this?   Way beyond the scheme of parser/generators I hope.  Think about parsing and generating planets.

We have a syntax.  Do we have example semantics yet?   Beyond that, should we discuss sign processes, systems and worlds?

John
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From: Christoph Valentin
Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2019 6:36 PM
To: x3d-publicweb3d.org
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [Semantics] X3D Semantic Web Working Group 14 MAR2019: structural and conceptual semantics, semantic mapping MINUTES

>>>>>>>>  Imagine having a Web3d conference online in Web3d using Web3d standards

Maybe it's a bit pretentious, when I add one word to this discussion (should have done this earlier though).

Let me try it this way.

1) I support Gina's and John's idea to actually use the standard during standardization process. This reminds me about the great times of the IETF, when they started to do all their technical discussions via mailing lists, actually using the Internet.

2) What can I contribute?

2.a) When we see it in a realistic way, the only thing I personally can contribute is a set of acronyms that happened to me during the proceeding of my hobby project: SMS (Simple Multiuser Scene), MIDAS Object (Multiuser Interactivity Driven Animation and Simulation Object), SP-ARK (Simple Playground to achieve required knowledge), BIMPF (Browser Independent Multiplayer Framework), and so on.

Such acronyms can help to bring ideas into brains more easily.

2.b) If requested I could contribute a repository at GitHub (John has suggested to move it from GitHub to another platform, have not yet understood, why), where I as project admin would promise to behave as a neutral person (as an Austrian I actually know what it means to be neutral :-) ). However, I would prefer, if somebody else took this job (ya' know I'm lazy ;-) ).

2.c) The 3D chat program for Web3d conferences could be implemented as demo scene in the SP-ARK project. Not by me, but by interested supporters. I don't even have the technical knowledge to do that. I just can do the neutral project admin (if requested).

All this too pretentious? I guess yes :-(

Have a nice week

Gesendet: Freitag, 22. März 2019 um 23:27 Uhr
Von: "GL" <info at 3dnetproductions.com>
An: x3d-public at web3d.org
Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] [Semantics] X3D Semantic Web Working Group 14 MAR 2019: structural and conceptual semantics, semantic mapping MINUTES
John,

I have asked myself these questions for a very long time. 3D online sessions should probably be recorded and placed on YouTube as well. The way it is now, almost no-one ever talks about Web3D anywhere that I can see, except for this email list and the annual RL conferences.

Meanwhile, competing efforts do everything they can to promote themselves in every possible way, while completely ignoring X3D, like it never existed, or portraying it as just some old odd tech that's superseded by newer, cooler and better way of doing things. And nobody's there to even get the record straight or voice an opinion supporting Web3D. Can't blame them, because it's a lot like politics.

But if we don't get out there and let people know, it is the same as not being in the race at all. I've always been out there advocating for X3D every single chance I get, but very few are, and that's part of the problem.

There are many VR groups on Facebook, many with thousands of members and one approaching 50,000 members. The frequency with which X3D or Web3D are even mentioned is down-right abysmal, the latter often just a mis-use of mis-appropriation of the term to boot.

The best technologies do not always win in the market, but winning in the market is essential to survive. I came across Oculus development web pages yesterday, where Facebook is effectively and loudly endorsing ISO standards when it comes to "Best Practices" related to "photosensitive seizures and image safety and designing content that conforms to these standards" (ISO 9241-391:2016). Though I can't help but wonder, if ISO standards are so important to Facebook, why then stop there? Because of what I call "market politics", that's why; companies and groups will twist the narrative to fit their agenda and promote their self-interests. Period. End of story.

Doing what John is proposing (below), would be a great step in the right direction for us. We need to showcase X3D at every opportunity... and demonstrate its power in no equivocal terms... then heads might start turning over to what this group has been doing for a quarter-century.

Gina-Lauren

________________________________________________________
* * * Interactive Multimedia - Internet Management * * *
* * Virtual Reality -- Application Programming * *
* 3D Net Productions 3dnetproductions.com *

From: x3d-public [mailto:x3d-public-bounces at web3d.org] On Behalf Of John Carlson
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] [Semantics] X3D Semantic Web Working Group 14 MAR 2019: structural and conceptual semantics, semantic mapping MINUTES

Classes are a good way to impart knowledge. Second Life was well known to have classes in 3D. Might we have some VR/AR classes? How might one design a tool to create VR/AR course material?

Why are we discussing creating a standard over email and phone and not in VR/AR? Is the visual aspect too much of a distraction? Can we create a meeting space in High Fidelity? Imagine having a Web3d conference online in Web3d using Web3d standards!

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