[x3d-public] X3D minutes 17 April 2020: HAnim2 approved by ISO; X3D4 Audio and Sound Component: accepted PR9
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Wed Apr 29 19:57:26 PDT 2020
Q. is there an example X3D scene that uses the new X3D audio nodes in a way
that connects several filters in a chain?
If so what does the syntax look like for making connections?
Thanks,
-Doug Sanden
On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 3:32 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> https://github.com/LabSound/LabSound
>
> https://github.com/exokitxr/exokit/tree/master/deps/exokit-bindings/webaudiocontext
>
> Something here might work - the LabSoud is a permissive-licence rework of
> MDN WebAudio API, but may be older but still has most of the nodes in the
> v4 audio extra nodes list.
> -Doug Sanden
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 2:48 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Audio > v4 > desktop > not good.
>> I had a peek at the new audio Extra Nodes and I after googling I didn't
>> find any easy paths forward for desktop applications
>> - maybe convert a WebAudo API js polyfill to native
>> - maybe MDN > Mozilla > firefox > webaudio API implementation for web
>> browser is in native and can be scraped.
>> I mention it in case someone working on the Audio has seen something for
>> native that will cover these extra nodes.
>> Thanks,
>> Doug Sanden
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:18 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Efi, will check, much appreciated. We didn't see the shape.html
>>> in Pull Request 9 so that is especially helpful.
>>>
>>> Dick and I are planning to work further Thursday on the Sound component,
>>> can devote some time during Friday call as well if you want to join.
>>>
>>> I found your slidesets from last October/November, am planning to upload
>>> them unless you have objections (or updates).
>>>
>>> v/r Don
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/27/2020 3:43 PM, Eftychia Lakka wrote:
>>> > Dear all,
>>> >
>>> > based on the above email (a number of questions: a-i), please find
>>> attached the .pdf file with the corresponding answers.
>>> >
>>> > Also, I am not sure that I understood what exactly is changed in the
>>> X3D repository in github in order to upload the updated version (the
>>> previous procedure included push in my github account and after that pull
>>> request). I will appreciate your help on this, maybe with some extra
>>> clarifications. Otherwise, I changed only two files (*sound*.html and
>>> *shape*.html), under the folder:
>>> X3D\ISO-IEC19775\ISO-IEC19775-1\ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0\ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1\Part01\components,
>>> so please find them attached.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> > Efi Lakka
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Στις Τρί, 21 Απρ 2020 στις 11:20 μ.μ., ο/η Don Brutzman <
>>> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>> έγραψε:
>>> >
>>> > Spec Editor meeting today, Dick and Don.
>>> >
>>> > We accepted Pull Request 9 and "dropped it on top" of existing
>>> Sound Component. All added CSS styles to indicate newly proposed work.
>>> >
>>> > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
>>> >
>>> > *
>>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/blob/master/ISO-IEC19775/ISO-IEC19775-1/ISO-IEC19775-1v4.0/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/sound.html
>>> >
>>> > We also *deleted the branch* so further work will be in draft X3D4
>>> Specification itself.
>>> >
>>> > Efi and Thanos, we have a number of questions. Some big (but
>>> do-able) work ahead:
>>> >
>>> > a. Is AudioNode an object type or a node? How does it differ from
>>> X3DSoundSourceNode ?
>>> >
>>> > b. What is the abstract node interface hierarchy tree for Concepts
>>> section 4.4.2.3 ?
>>> >
>>> > c. Renumber nodes and integrate.
>>> >
>>> > d. Support table needs addition of nodes as Level 2.
>>> >
>>> > e. Once we confirm parent-child field relationships, we can work
>>> on Schema/DTD.
>>> >
>>> > f. Where are examples? Slideset? Please send. Several other
>>> TODO items appear below as well.
>>> >
>>> > g. Review fields and prose for each node. Standardize
>>> alphabetization and field ordering.
>>> >
>>> > h. Isn't more needed in the Concepts section of this component?
>>> >
>>> > i. Where is draft SoundMaterial/SoundProperties? Do we merge with
>>> X3DMaterialMaterial node?
>>> >
>>> > Onward we go, again thanks.
>>> >
>>> > On 4/19/2020 6:41 PM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>>> > > 1. *Summary*. Today's session focused on X3D Sound Component
>>> and work by Efi Lakka and Athanasios Malamos to gain compatibility with W3C
>>> Web Audio components that are commonly being implemented in HTML5
>>> browsers. Numerous references are also included.
>>> > >
>>> > > We met Friday 17 April 2020 0800-0940 for regular weekly
>>> meeting of X3D Working Group.
>>> > >
>>> > > Attendees: Efi Lakka, Athanasios Malamos, Vince Marchetti,
>>> Nicholas Polys, Dick Puk, Anita Havele, Don Brutzman.
>>> > >
>>> > > [1.1] X3D Graphics Working Group
>>> > > https://www.web3d.org/working-groups/x3d
>>> > >
>>> > > Confirmed that no member-only information is present in these
>>> minutes. Noted that the information here:
>>> > > - helps members pay full attention to the detailed improvement
>>> of X3D4,
>>> > > - helps community understand and trust the diligence of the
>>> process, and
>>> > > - helps everyone understand that Web3D Consortium offers
>>> serious member value!
>>> > > https://www.web3d.org/join
>>> > >
>>> > > Note that all Web3D zoom conference lines are now protected by
>>> password.
>>> > >
>>> > > [1.2] Web3D Teleconference Information
>>> > > https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>> > >
>>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > 2. *ISO Publication of HAnim*
>>> > >
>>> > > Good news! Dick and I worked for about an hour during one of
>>> our twice-weekly X3D Specification Editor teleconferences to confirm that
>>> the ISO version (published November 2019) indeed matches (a) what we
>>> submitted, and (b) the Web3D version. Everything looked great. 8)
>>> > >
>>> > > As most people know, these documents are available to members
>>> on github.
>>> > >
>>> > > Github links:
>>> > >
>>> > > [2.0] GitHub: Web3D Consortium
>>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium
>>> > >
>>> > > [2.1] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim
>>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim
>>> > >
>>> > > [2.2] GitHub: Web3D Consortium members, HAnim Specifications
>>> combined parts 1 and 2
>>> > >
>>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/HAnim/raw/master/ISO-IEC19774-combined-IS.Web3D.zip
>>> > >
>>> > > We've handed them off to Executive Director Anita and the
>>> Webmaster to post on web3d.org <http://web3d.org> pages. These go on
>>> web3d.org <http://web3d.org> under STANDARDS (All, Recommended, HAnim)
>>> replacing the v2.0 DIS version with this new v2.0 International Standard
>>> (IS) version.
>>> > >
>>> > > Next steps:
>>> > > - publish on web3d.org <http://web3d.org>,
>>> > > - public announcement (Anita will give initial draft to HAnim
>>> principals) with completion goal next week,
>>> > > - track ISO correction of their catalog pages (H-Anim to HAnim),
>>> > > - track ISO addition of HAnim specifications to their freely
>>> available ISO specifications,
>>> > > - Joe and Don are now reviewing HAnim 1 and 2 examples for
>>> correctness. This take a number of weeks because the example version
>>> numbers need close review, and because not all prior changes were applied
>>> thoroughly).
>>> > > - if needed, submit a corrigendum to ISO for updated HAnim
>>> examples. Dick can help with the process.
>>> > >
>>> > > Suggested: followup with Medical Working Group about future
>>> strategies taking advantage of new HAnim capabilities; also DICOM
>>> HealthLevel7 and IEEE 3D Body Processing (3DBP). Perhaps OGC GeoPose too?
>>> > >
>>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > 2.5 *Web3DUX Working Group*
>>> > >
>>> > > Announcement needed, Anita will contact working group chairs.
>>> Nicholas Anita Don and Dick will continue helping to encourage broader
>>> activity. They meet every other Wednesday on Web3D Teleconference line
>>> 1015-1100 pacific.
>>> > >
>>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > 3. *Audio Improvements and Sound Component*
>>> > >
>>> > > Summary: Prior review by X3D Working Group accepted this work
>>> for X3D4. We are thrilled to see much progress today. Much detail follows.
>>> > >
>>> > > This week's X3D Working Group teleconference features Efi Lakka
>>> and Professor Athanasios Malamos reviewing significant changes to X3D Sound
>>> Component for spatialization of sound and alignment of audio capabilities
>>> with current Web capabilities. This builds on capabilities first reported
>>> in the Web3D Conference held in Crete a few years ago. Her work includes
>>> updates to the X3D Sound Component (as a github pull request) plus demo
>>> scenes implemented in X3DOM.
>>> > >
>>> > > Efi Lakka reviewed the overall design and summarized her prior
>>> work. Pull Request 9 information follows, also see attached notification
>>> from github.
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.1] X3D4 PR9
>>> > > ===============================================================
>>> > > You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:
>>> > > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9
>>> > >
>>> > > "Draft replacement to Sound Component for X3D4 Abstract
>>> Architecture, adding improved spatial audio rendering capabilities that
>>> take advantage of W3C Audio recommendations."
>>> > >
>>> > > Patch Links:
>>> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.patch
>>> > > * https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/9.diff
>>> > > ===============================================================
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.2] Multimedia Laboratory, Hellenic Mediterranean
>>> University
>>> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.3] For everyone who wants to see how this first approach
>>> works, visit
>>> > > http://medialab.hmu.gr/minipages/x3domAudio/index.html
>>> > >
>>> > > Background document on X3D4 Implementations page is quite
>>> thorough. Small changes as version 3 will be released shortly.
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.3] X3Dv4 Implementations Status
>>> > > https://www.web3d.org/x3dv4-implementations
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.3] Attachment X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
>>> > >
>>> https://www.web3d.org/sites/default/files/page/X3Dv4%20Implementations/X3dAudioExtension_v02.pdf
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.4] TODO needed: slideset shown during meeting
>>> > > ___________
>>> > >
>>> > > Structure of hooking together various audio filters and sources
>>> is interesting. Generally design of an audio "chain" is accomplished
>>> primarily by hierarchical parent-child field references, not ROUTE
>>> connections.
>>> > >
>>> > > Addition of AcousticMaterial and properties will soon be
>>> included - seems like the right idea to do now since it is part of the
>>> spatialization computations. Are extra properties needed? an important
>>> area for discussion and continued work. We will temporarily add to Sound
>>> component for initial review, then into Shape component when confirmed
>>> robust.
>>> > >
>>> > > Implementation and evaluation will guide dialog and decision.
>>> Suggest specification prose sooner (at least as placeholders) and any
>>> additional implementation to follow shortly after. For now, "Better is the
>>> enemy of Good Enough" to keep building understanding and momentum.
>>> > >
>>> > > X3DOM examples are more mature now, and can be found at
>>> > >
>>> > > [3.5] TODO needed: latest examples link
>>> > > ___________
>>> > >
>>> > > /Discussion/
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: When can X_ITE plan to begin implementation work? Likely in
>>> another few months, probably best for everyone to focus completely on X3DOM
>>> implementation completely. (Andreas Plesch has visibility into both
>>> codebases and can advise.)
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: Is JavaScript necessary for implementation support? Not
>>> necessarily. Most code so far has been moved into the X3DOM
>>> implementation. Some might be used for audio animation-style effects, see
>>> examples.
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: So far, are you only using browser audio?
>>> > > A: yes.
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: Have you seen any audio implementations other than HTML
>>> browsers? This might be helpful for some of the non-HTML X3D players
>>> (view3dscene, FreeWrl, instantreality et al.). A: have not looked at
>>> that. More investigation by others is appropriate.
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: How close is X3D audio content to HTML5 audio code? Can
>>> similar effects be achieved either inside X3D scene or above in enclosing
>>> HTML page? Will HTML audio authors find it familiar?
>>> > > A: X3D4 authors will find the new component as easy to use as
>>> the existing X3D3 component. Implementation complexity is mostly hidden.
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: What is your assessment of maturity of the W3C Audio
>>> candidate recommendations (CRs)?
>>> > > A: They seem stable but not always complete. More study and
>>> feedback appears appropriate.
>>> > >
>>> > > Background W3C resources of interest:
>>> > >
>>> > > -----
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.1] W3C » Standards » Web Design and Applications »
>>> Audio and Video
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/audiovideo
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.2] W3C Wiki: Audio
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/wiki/Audio
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.3] Making Audio and Video Media Accessible
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/WAI/media/av
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.4] W3C Standards and Drafts: Audio
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/?title=audio
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.5] Web Audio API
>>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation, 18 September 2018
>>> > > Latest published version:
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio
>>> > >
>>> > > "Abstract. This specification describes a high-level Web API
>>> for processing and synthesizing audio in web applications. The primary
>>> paradigm is of an audio routing graph, where a number of AudioNode objects
>>> are connected together to define the overall audio rendering. The actual
>>> processing will primarily take place in the underlying implementation
>>> (typically optimized Assembly / C / C++ code), but direct script processing
>>> and synthesis is also supported.
>>> > > The Introduction section covers the motivation behind this
>>> specification.
>>> > > This API is designed to be used in conjunction with other APIs
>>> and elements on the web platform, notably: XMLHttpRequest [XHR] (using the
>>> responseType and response attributes). For games and interactive
>>> applications, it is anticipated to be used with the canvas 2D [2dcontext]
>>> and WebGL [WEBGL] 3D graphics APIs."
>>> > >
>>> > > "Status of this document. [...] This document was published by
>>> the the Web Audio Working Group as a Candidate Recommendation. This
>>> document is intended to become a W3C Recommendation. [...] A preliminary
>>> implementation report is available."
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.6] "CanIUseWebAudio"
>>> > > https://caniuse.com/#feat=audio-api
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.7] Audio Output Devices API
>>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 03 October 2017
>>> > > Latest published version:
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audio-output
>>> > >
>>> > > "Abstract. This document defines a set of JavaScript APIs that
>>> let a Web application manage how audio is rendered on the user audio output
>>> devices."
>>> > >
>>> > > "Status of This Document. [...] While the specification is
>>> feature complete and is expected to be stable, it might evolve based on
>>> implementation feedback that will be gathered as its associated test suite
>>> evolves. This test suite will be used to build an implementation report of
>>> the API; to go into Proposed Recommendation status, the group expects to
>>> demonstrate implementation of each feature in at least two deployed
>>> browsers."
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.8] Web MIDI API
>>> > > W3C Working Draft 17 March 2015
>>> > > Latest published version:
>>> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webmidi
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.9] Web Audio Processing: Use Cases and Requirements
>>> > > W3C Working Group Note 29 January 2013
>>> > > Latest published version:
>>> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases
>>> > > includes
>>> > > 2.2 3D game with music and convincing sound effects
>>> > >
>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#x3d-game-with-music-and-convincing-sound-effects
>>> > > and
>>> > > 2.11 User Control of Audio
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/#user-control-of-audio
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.9] Audiobooks
>>> > > W3C Candidate Recommendation 17 March 2020
>>> > > Latest published version:
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/audiobooks
>>> > >
>>> > > "Abstract. This specification describes the requirements for
>>> the creation of audiobooks, using a profile of the Publication Manifest
>>> specification."
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.10] HTML5.2, section 4.7.11 The audio element
>>> > >
>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/semantics-embedded-content.html#the-audio-element
>>> > >
>>> > > "An audio element represents a sound or audio stream." [...]
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.11] Audio Working Group
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/2011/audio
>>> > >
>>> > > "Mission. The mission of the Audio Working Group is to add
>>> advanced sound and music synthesis capabilities to the Open Web Platform."
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.12] Publishing Working Group
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg
>>> > >
>>> > > "Mission. The mission of the Publishing Working Group is to
>>> enable all publications—with all their specificities and traditions—to
>>> become first-class entities on the Web. The group will provide the
>>> necessary technologies on the Open Web Platform to make the combination of
>>> traditional publishing and the Web complete in terms of accessibility,
>>> usability, portability, distribution, archiving, offline access, and
>>> reliable cross referencing."
>>> > >
>>> > > -----
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: Is "chain" the right term for an effect? We should likely
>>> use same term as W3C Audio group uses.
>>> > > A. TODO check/confirm.
>>> > >
>>> > > Within the Web Audio CR, looks like the proper term is "modular
>>> routing" for composition of AudioNode source-node outputs and
>>> destination-object inputs.
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.13] Web Audio API, Features: Modular Routing
>>> > > https://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#ModularRouting
>>> > >
>>> > > Q: Is the audio "chain" of source-filter-effect-spatialization
>>> effect represented as your .mp3 file?
>>> > > A: TODO explain relationship.
>>> > >
>>> > > Tool of interest:
>>> > >
>>> > > [a.14] Web Audio Inspector (Chrome plugin)
>>> > > https://opensource.google/projects/audion
>>> > >
>>> > > "Audion (Web Audio Inspector) is a Chrome extension that adds a
>>> Web Audio panel to dev tools. This panel visualizes the web audio graph in
>>> real-time and lets users inspect nodes."
>>> > >
>>> > > Erratum: for example shown during screenshare,
>>> <X3DSoundSourceNode> should be <AudioClip> (or perhaps another newer
>>> node)... the object interface might be functionally correct but we need to
>>> be careful about syntax, can't use abstract node types in X3D model files.
>>> > >
>>> > > Don and Dick plan to work during Tuesday's X3D4 Specification
>>> Editors call to drop Efi's draft on top of existing X3D Sound component,
>>> see if we are ready to check in, if good enough then accept the merge and
>>> keep moving forward.
>>> > >
>>> > > Next steps for action:
>>> > > a. Marking up specification changes (css for proposed/yellow,
>>> deleted/orange) after including the Pull Request (PR9) in draft spec.
>>> > > b. Are there any node name changes to consider? Create summary
>>> list for confirmation. Use Mantis to track specific changes.
>>> > > c. Describing X3DOM implementation
>>> > > d. Publishing example models, evaluate implementation
>>> correctness.
>>> > > e. Encourage additional implementations X_iTE and other players
>>> - Web3D Call for Implementations in June, perhaps?
>>> > > f. demonstration video for "Learning X3D4" later when stable, a
>>> draft video was created today. Thanks! Anita will publish privately with
>>> X3D Working Group.
>>> > > g. prepare paper for Web3D 2020 in November? we hope so.
>>> > >
>>> > > Of related note: Web3D Consortium has the opportunity to
>>> nominate individual member(s) to participation in W3C Spatial Audio group.
>>> This can really help us achieve all of our goals effectively.
>>> > >
>>> > > [5.1] [x3d-public] Fwd: Audio Working Group Charter Approved;
>>> Call for Participation
>>> > >
>>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-April/012060.html
>>> > >
>>> > > Subject to level of effort while implementing X3D4 Sound,
>>> Thanos and Efi are willing to participate. Don will participate as well
>>> and lead the initial engagement. Anyone else?
>>> > >
>>> > > Time expectation for completion: primary improvements are
>>> complete and demonstrated. More incremental work will continue over a
>>> number of months. Goal completion for initial examples and specification
>>> is June with announcement of near-completion at SIGGRAPH in July. Working
>>> together with W3C colleagues will help.
>>> > >
>>> > > Our plan is to check status on integrating PR9 Audio into the
>>> X3D4 draft in 2 weeks, 1 May 2000, at 0900 pacific, one hour into the
>>> regular X3D Working Group teleconference. (Please note that it is a bank
>>> holiday in Crete!)
>>> > >
>>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > 4. Fixing Mantis access: partially complete.
>>> > >
>>> > > Webmaster has provided access to Mantis for following
>>> contributors:
>>> > >
>>> > >> On 4/7/2020 11:54 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>>> > >>> Webmaster, please add the following members to Mantis issue
>>> tracker:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Athanasios Malamos <athanasios.malamos at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:athanasios.malamos at gmail.com>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Efi Lakka <efilakka at gmail.com <mailto:efilakka at gmail.com
>>> >>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Jakub Flotyński <flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl <mailto:
>>> flotynski at kti.ue.poznan.pl>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Thanks for all support.
>>> > >
>>> > > However need to add them to X3D4 project. Didn't work for me
>>> so far, apparently due to lack of permissions. Have again requested
>>> webmaster support.
>>> > >
>>> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > Suggested topic for next week: Cross Origin Resource Sharing
>>> (CORS), following up on prior meeting topics.
>>> > >
>>> > > Onward we go. Have fun with X3D audio and sound! 8)
>>> > >
>>> > > all the best, Don
>>> >
>>> > all the best, Don
>>> > --
>>> > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>>> > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>> >
>>>
>>> all the best, Don
>>> --
>>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>> +1.831.656.2149
>>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> x3d-public mailing list
>>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>>
>>
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