[x3d-public] C/C++/C#---X3DCSAIL/ECMAScript 6 apps/module work
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Fri Aug 28 08:25:52 PDT 2020
Correction, several.sh instead of server.sh
John
On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:54 AM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
> Thanks John. Looking at other approaches is good to help determine
> common-denominator best-practice API code patterns for accessor methods
> (getters and setters).
>
>
>
> The goal remains [X3DUOM -> converter -> SAI API Library] where the
> 'converter' is not human, but either an XSLT stylesheet (multiple exemplars
> available) Or another conversion program.
>
>
>
> All that can be added to our build process, and all X3D examples converted
> (JSON available already), and tested as part of our continuous unit testing.
>
>
>
> and... that's it. Same story, told a dozen times, also discussed with you
> earlier this week.
>
>
>
> and... same story for C/C++/C#, again told many times.
>
>
>
> Good luck converging and aligning your Ecmascript efforts.
>
>
>
> v/r Don
>
>
>
> On 8/27/2020 12:04 AM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> > NPS WARNING: *external sender* verify before acting.
>
> >
>
> > We are currently working on an ECMAScript serializer. We will also
> probably need an X3dToES6.xslt. I suggest looking into Facebook’s
> Transcoder or OpenAI’s GPT-3
>
> >
>
> > My serializer is here and runs as part of local.sh or server.sh
>
> >
>
> >
> https://github.com/coderextreme/X3DJSONLD/blob/master/src/main/node/ECMAScriptSerializer.is
>
> >
>
> > It’s easy to change folders and issue the command ‘sh local.sh’. In the
> shell folder
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The current code runs as JavaScript and puts ECMAScriptcode in
> net/ecma/data. But this requires a second pair of eyes in short term.
>
> >
>
> > While the code runs there are many type warnings. And a very small
> amount of output.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hand generated apps can be found in
> github.com/coderextreme/es6x3d/app.js <
> http://github.com/coderextreme/es6x3d/app.js> and app2j.js. These are
> currently what’s driving the effort.
>
> >
>
> > There is hopefully a small amount of effort involved in generating some
> thing compliant with the es6 effort.
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 4:00 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:
> brutzman at nps.edu>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Hi John, here are answers to your questions.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On 8/11/2020 9:48 AM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > After perusing the previous efforts found in
> www.web3d.org/x3d/languages <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/languages> <
> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/languages>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > thanks for looking. am not finding anything there... you must mean
> in subversion:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > * https://svn.code.sf.net/p/x3d/code/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > alternatively
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > *
> https://sourceforge.net/p/x3d/code/HEAD/tree/www.web3d.org/x3d/languages/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > it looks like the C and C++ SAI implementations need the most
> effort. The C# libraries are the most complete. I haven't been able to
> tell if the libraries are hand generated, or auto-generated. If they were
> autogenerated, it would be nice to have the tool which auto-generated them.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > In short, it appears (but a second set of eyes is welcome) that
> we have C, C++ and C# proposed standards for language binding at the ISO CD
> level, found on github? And a C# library and C/C++/C# SAI examples on
> sourceforge?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The source we have is a year old.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The request to Myeong Won Lee is regarding what is latest.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > What is the next step after CD for the C/C++/C# standards?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > First step is working draft, we need code implementation to document
> in the draft spec.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > Would the new work give us an opportunity to switch
> implementation efforts to github?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > am not eager to change our entire workflow while pushing to meet
> multiple X3D deadlines this year.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > first law of engineering: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > To be clear there, there are 5 efforts:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 1) standardizing a specification. This is primarily documenting
> various interfaces and dictionaries.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 2) implementing a specification
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 3) implementing validation tools (schemas), especially for
> loosely typed encodings.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 4) implementing example apps
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > 5) implementing comprehensive test cases and test frameworks.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I am primarily interested in efforts 3-5. It seems like we are
> currently working on 1 and 2 with some examples that go into the
> standards? Are we prepared to work on 3-5 yet?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > No disagreements in general, makes sense. Meanwhile I think if you
> look at my prior recent mail (replying to you 11 August 2020, also found
> below) on this topic you will find an entire plan of action laid out
> already, steps a through p.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > * [x3d-public] C/C++/C#---X3DCSAIL
>
> >
>
> >
> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-August/013403.html
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am wondering if we can find C/C++/C# experts who want to help.
> Getting APIs correct, repeatable and reusable are guru-level challenges.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > ============================================
>
> >
>
> > > I primarily got interested in the ES6 work because it looked like
> we were divorcing the ECMAScript and Python implementations from outside
> dependencies (X3DJSAIL), plus I wanted a firm footing in ES6 classes
> instead of a transpiled version of Java, one that used ES6 best practices
> instead of Java best practices. However, that work has been delayed due to
> lack of examples and my own ennui/listlessness. That is, I find it hard to
> work on both apps and libraries at the same time, and I would prefer to
> work on apps. I've stated this before. This might provide an additional
> revenue stream.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > motivation is up to you. hard to imagine anyone with more wonderful
> 3D challenges and opportunities than us! 8)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > I do think that ES6 and X3DJSAIL effort should be separated.
> This would allow an implementation separate from the npm java module
> and/or nashorn/GraalVM.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > still agreed
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > While I tried to implement an ES6 library, it's still a long
> way from working with a whole test suite.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > still think that we do not need a whole test suite. As with X3D in
> C/C++/C#, and as with X3D in Java Python Turtle and JSON, we simply need
> good design patterns. Then we use X3DUOM and write a custom stylesheet (or
> other converter) that produces the whole codebase suite.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Same story as before, demonstrated repeatedly as a successful
> approach. "Nothing succeeds like success." 8)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > I do not know exactly where we are with ES6 X3D standardization?
> What are the tasks to accomplish for standardization?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We must finish X3D4 before Dick Puk and I will work on any other
> X3D-related specifications.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Once started, the various language bindings and file encodings for
> X3D4 will all be quite similar, each variations on the same themes.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We have X3D SAI for Ecmascript. When that is updated, I think you
> want to propose ES6 for Node.js.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Hope this makes sense.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > John
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 9:01 AM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu
> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu> <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:
> brutzman at nps.edu>>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > John, thanks for posting. There are a number of steps still
> to go, here is more information.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > a. We currently 2/3 complete in our virtual 3-week-long
> annual meeting for ISO Standards Committee 24. Ordinarily this is a
> dedicated 1-week face-to-face meeting, it is quite involved.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > b. Dr. Myeong Won Lee of Suwon University has provided an
> update to the C/C++/C# language bindings for X3D that were first proposed
> two years ago.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [1] Web3D Consortium Members are now considering C, C++
> and C# language bindings for
>
> >
>
> > > #X3D Graphics International Standard. Member value
> continues to grow, early adopters are advised to join!
>
> >
>
> > > All community feedback is welcome too.
>
> >
>
> > > https://twitter.com/Web3DConsortium/status/984257256270135296
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > c. The Scene Access Interface (SAI) language bindings are
> strictly defined by X3D specifications. No proprietary technology or
> external-library dependencies are required.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [2] Web3D Recommended Standards
>
> >
>
> > > https://www.web3d.org/standards
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > d. We have captured all X3D scene-graph structure and typing
> in the X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [3] X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM)
>
> >
>
> > > https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3DUOM.html
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > e. We have achieved autogeneration from X3DUOM to open-source
> implementations that support SAI for Java, Python and Turtle. This occurs
> through careful consideration of design patterns to hold strictly designed
> data structures. This does not include any form of rendering or
> platform-specific adaptations.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [4] X3D Graphics Standards Relationships
>
> >
>
> > >
> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSpecificationRelationships.png
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > f. A major benefit of autogeneration is that everything is
> exactly correct and can always track X3D4 refinements.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > g. As you know, we hope to repeat this pattern for
> JavaScript. Your experience with X3DJSONLD and JavaScript means that an
> autogenerated implementation oriented to Node.js is appealing.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > h. Once implementations are stable, we will have to write
> corresponding X3D SAI specifications to match, likely next spring.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > i. Professor Lee has also produced an example code library
> that should serve as a good basis for design templates.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > j. We hope to begin tackling this new task after SIGGRAPH.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > k. Since an unavoidable FAQ will be "How are the C/C++/C#
> implementations and specifications similar, and how are they different?"
> the X3D working group currently plans to work all three in tandem and
> submit all three specifications simultaneously. This approach will
> maximize consistency and best-of-breed design patterns.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > l. Clearly we will need multiple X3D experts who are each
> familiar with C, C++ and C# in order to achieve our goals of useful
> reusable open-source libraries and specifications.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > m. This is not a debate about programming styles or
> preferences, rather how do we produce the most platform-neutral APIs that
> are widely reusable.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > n. Resulting codebases will be hooked up to regression
> testing of the X3D Examples Archives.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [5] X3D Resources, Examples: Scene Archives for X3D
>
> >
>
> > >
> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > o. Success is measured by how these libraries encourage
> adoption of X3D by C/C++/C# applications, either open source or commercial.
> Original announcement follows.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > [6] [x3d] X3D C and C++ language bindings NWIPs
> [corrected copy]
>
> >
>
> > >
> http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2018-April/008598.html
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > p. I'll be sending out an annual Web3D ISO liaison report to
> Web3D Consortium members in another week, once the SC24 meeting is
> complete. This report will get released publicly sometime afterwards.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > q. So the answer to most of your questions below is "same as
> before" with Java, Python, Turtle.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Hope this makes sense. These are new big projects, adapting
> and repeating capabilities that we have already demonstrated three times.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Worthy mountains to climb that make X3D ever-more available.
> Usually this is where business plans add a sentence saying, approximately,
> "total world domination to follow." 8)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Thanks everyone for considering the possibilities. Have fun
> with X3D4! 8)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > On 8/10/2020 5:10 PM, John Carlson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > We're looking for some programmers to contribute to a
> project creating X3DCSAIL, a C/C++/C# version of X3DJSAIL.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > My question is, how will X3DCSAIL be different from
> OpenInventor or Coin3D or FreeWRL? Can these run headless? Can we adapt
> one of these to run headless? It looks like OpenInventor has a headless
> mode, but I'm not sure about the others.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > How might we pursue this library? What are the
> requirements? Who are the customers? Should we just create examples, and
> adopt one of the existing open source X3D browser implementations? Is
> there a website describing the goals of this project? Should I create one?
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > I have something written in C++ that reads in X3D JSON and
> writes out X3D XML, but that's pretty much a prototype at this stage--works
> with a couple of cases. This opens up C++ X3D browser to the X3D JSON
> capabilities similar to how X3DJSONLD transformed X_ITE and X3DOM.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > The cplusplus version in in
> <X3DJSONLD>/src/main/cplusplus/src
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > More testing is welcome!
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > We currently do not have a X3dToC.xslt, but would
> appreciate examples of C++ code that people would like to develop to use
> X3DCSAIL, so we can pattern the appropriate stylesheet for the X3DCSAIL
> library.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > O can provide a C++ Serializer that will convert a DOM
> document to C++ using JavaScript code, but I'm also wondering what kind of
> target I should hit, similar to what we might do with a stylesheet.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > So we're just looking for C++ test cases at this point.
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Thanks,
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > > > John
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > all the best, Don
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu <mailto:brutzman at nps.edu>
>
> >
>
> > Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
> +1.831.656.2149
>
> >
>
> > X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
> >
>
>
>
> all the best, Don
>
> --
>
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
> brutzman at nps.edu
>
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
>
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
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