[x3d-public] X3D minutes 12 June 2020: X3D4 gltf/physically based rendering (PBR) update, X3D C++ language binding, Web3D 2020 CFP 5 July
John Carlson
yottzumm at gmail.com
Sat Jun 13 19:27:05 PDT 2020
Leonard, I now have some time to address this.
Visited:
https://www.web3d.org/
Click Log in.
Saved password, so just click Log in button.
Members > Content > Mantis.
*login (again) to the membership system.*
Click link like appears above in the page.
Saved password, so click Login button.
See attached page. I don't see any place to log into Mantis. I am
expecting to see Mantis, since that's what I selected. Click "Secure Web3D
Member - Only"
Receive 403 Forbidden.
Go back to https://www.web3d.org/
Members > Content > Mantis.
Mantis login appears.
Note: "Remember my login in this browser" is unchecked.
Password is saved, click Login button.
Login achieved! I receive a bonus membership!.
[image: image.png]
Perhaps I am not a member? Could you check? I remember paying $250.
As far as what is desired for a page flow, I'll leave that for the
intelligent people. I am just a tester.
Thanks,
John
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:53 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps the page flow for getting into mantis could be improved.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 10:19 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Attendees: Michalis Kamburelis, Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Nicholas
>> Polys, Dick Puk, Don Brutzman.
>>
>> Regrets: Christophe Mouton, previously participating with Vince in
>> global meeting of Web3D 2020 Conference program committee.
>>
>> Thanks to Michalis for today's "deep dive" and also thanks to Michalis
>> and Vince for help with minutes.
>>
>> Last week's minutes:
>>
>> [0] X3D minutes 5 June 2020: Web3D 2020 papers deadline, mantis issues,
>> refining some field names
>>
>> https://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2020-June/012834.html
>>
>> No member-only information is included in these minutes.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 1. *Participation Information*
>>
>> [1] Web3D Teleconference Information
>> https://www.web3d.org/member/teleconference-information
>>
>> Please use the following link for all Web3D Consortium Meetings.
>>
>> Join URL:
>> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/81634670698?pwd=a1VPeU5tN01rc21Oa3hScUlHK0Rxdz09
>>
>> Meeting ID: 81634670698 Meeting Password: 483805
>>
>> One tap mobile
>> US (New York) +1 929 205 6099,,(nine-digit number from Join URL
>> above)#
>> US (San Jose) +1 669 900 6833,,(nine-digit number from Join URL
>> above)#
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 2. Physically Based Rendering (PBR) Progress.
>>
>> Michalis briefed us all on progress in the X3D4 PR8
>>
>> [2] X3D4 PR8: [WIP] PBR and other lighting and material upgrades
>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/pull/8
>>
>> Castle Game Engine (CGE) implements now punctual lights
>>
>> [3] Reading punctual lights from glTF
>>
>> https://castle-engine.io/wp/2020/06/11/reading-punctual-lights-from-gltf
>>
>> [4] KHR_lights_punctual - Khronos extensions for punctual lights in glTF
>> "This extension defines a set of lights for use with glTF 2.0.
>> Lights define light sources within a scene."
>>
>> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Khronos/KHR_lights_punctual
>>
>> They correspond nicely to X3D PointLight/SpotLight/DirectionalLight.
>>
>> Blender can export them (with out-of-the-box glTF exporter).
>>
>> Michalis promises to write (some time after PBR PR, so in July/August) a
>> document "Suggested/best practices to convert glTF to X3D" to document
>> corresponding glTF and X3D features. Thanks!!
>>
>> glTF has also image-based lighting:
>>
>> [5] glTF/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based/ - Khronos
>> extensions for image-based lights in glTF
>>
>> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 3. Michalis plan to finish PBR PR in June:
>>
>> 3.1. *Do* deal with texture channels issue (see
>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4:-New-features-of-materials,-lights-and-textures#todos
>> )
>>
>> 3.2. *Do not* deal with gammma correction.
>>
>> * It can be left, after my PR PBR, as implementation-specific choice
>> controlled by some user setting.
>>
>> * Reason: It is useful, but not critical, to add X3D prose about it (to
>> control gamma (request it being on/off, not "user's choice"), and to
>> specify that particular texture is already in gamma-corrected space or
>> not). So this prose can be added in X3D 4.1.
>>
>> [6]
>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Gamma-correction-in-X3D-and-glTF
>> [7]
>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/X3D-version-4:-New-features-of-materials,-lights-and-textures#todos
>>
>> 3.3. *Do not* deal with image-based lighting. `EnvironmentLight`, that I
>> planned for X3D 4.0, and hereby getting postponed. Not for June, maybe not
>> for X3D 4.0.
>>
>> Reason: it can be added nicely in X3D 4.1.
>>
>> And it will be interesting to see adoption of corresponding
>> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/tree/master/extensions/2.0/Vendor/EXT_lights_image_based
>> (it is not yet supported by glTF sample viewer or by Blender exporter;
>> although they are I think at least 2 open-source implementations handling
>> it).
>>
>> ----
>>
>> 4. Matching data types from X3D to glTF?
>>
>> Michalis has shown that it is possible to ROUTE values into a node within
>> a glTF model.
>>
>> (suggest forwarding separate private email thread to public list with
>> permissions, if appropriate)
>>
>> Nicholas asked about matching data types, i.e. correspondences between
>> X3D and glTF data types... Michalis reports that current value type
>> correspondences basically seem sufficient and are working well. We do need
>> to pay attention to names and naming conventions, more to follow on that
>> when we start scrutinizing examples.
>>
>> If glTF naming isn't yet stable then perhaps not in X3D4.0 but topic
>> definitely holds interest. We continue looking at precise mechanisms for
>> loading glTF in X3D, presumably via Inline node. Indeed Michalis example
>> utilized Inline and IMPORT statements.
>>
>> The X3D IMPORT / EXPORT mechanism is already capable of doing this:
>> - glTF loader in Castle Game Engine simply internally creates X3D nodes
>> (like TimeSensor) with names derived from glTF nodes.
>> - The animation TimeSensor nodes are also EXPORTed from the glTF file,
>> using X3D EXPORT mechanism.
>> - So you can Inline the glTF file in X3D, and access the animations from
>> X3D and play them.
>>
>> Michalis made a demo of this:
>>
>> - X3D code is in
>>
>> [8]
>> https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/blob/master/blender/skinned_animation/skinned_anim_run_animations_from_x3d.x3dv
>>
>> - It accesses the glTF file in the same directory,
>>
>> [9]
>> https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/blob/master/blender/skinned_animation/skinned_anim.glb
>>
>> Discussion of Inline node being sufficient for loading glTF (i.e. not
>> needing another new node): Michalis confirmed that was indeed the case for
>> his implementation.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> 5. *C++ Language binding to X3D.*
>>
>> Prof Myeong Won Lee has submitted to X3D Working Group by email the
>> second working-draft version Committee Draft (CD) for ISO-IEC 19777-4; C++
>> Language binding to X3D. She is looking for feedback and comments.
>>
>> [10] [x3d] ISO/IEC 19777-4 CD X3D language bindings - Part 4: C++ by
>> Myeong Won Lee
>>
>> https://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2020-June/007914.html
>>
>> This is the second submission of a draft document, following initial
>> sharing, positive reinforcement and helpful feedback last year.
>>
>> This important step has been entered into timeline document at
>>
>> [11] Web3D ISO Specification Development Timeline
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GdVcjQIid0Hohc_ajmepVOESy2sLtHSVvbvsFni89w8/edit#gid=1641828106
>>
>> We intend to perform member-only X3D Working Group initial review before
>> considering any further steps.
>>
>> As usual, once ready, we expect to share this document more widely with
>> experts and experts and community to further improve correctness and
>> encourage adoption. We are driving towards an ISO submission.
>>
>> Dick, are we ready to place this document into Github for further member
>> access?
>>
>> [12] https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D
>> "Maintenance and development of all X3D specifications, i.e. ISO/IEC
>> 19775, 19776 and 19777 series."
>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D
>>
>> After sufficient work and consensus in X3D Working Group on readiness, it
>> will advance further to Web3D Board and Web3D Members for review and
>> approval.
>>
>> [13] Web3D Consortium Standards Strategy
>> https://www.web3d.org/strategy
>>
>> As ever, Web3D Consortium Membership has value!
>>
>> [14] Join the Web3D Consortium
>> https://www.web3d.org/join
>>
>> ----
>>
>> 6. *Mantis Issue Updates*
>>
>> We briefly reviewed the following Mantis issues.
>>
>> [15] Mantis 1252, PointProperties node specification;
>> PointSet/LineSet/IndexedLineSet can contain Normal
>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1252
>>
>> Noted that we have gotten to clarity in Mantis and applied draft
>> specification changes. Will soon add Normal as an allowed field for
>> PointSet/LineSet/IndexedLineSet nodes in X3D4 XML schema/DTD, X3DUOM and
>> various X3D autogenerated. This design improvements provides more
>> consistent handling of collected data and potential rendering for point
>> clouds, especially mesh production by 3D scanners.
>>
>> Continuing followup from last week's X3D Working Group meeting progress
>> on Viewpoint/NavigationInfo and viewAll:
>>
>> [16] Mantis 1194: 23.4.4 NavigationInfo VIEWALL (or X3DViewpointNode
>> viewAll) should be a required navigation behaviour
>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1194
>>
>> [17] Mantis 1264: NavigationInfo type TURNTABLE HELICOPTER GAME FREEFLY
>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1194
>>
>> [18] Mantis 1264: add field to Viewpoint for dedicated NavigationInfo
>> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1305]
>>
>> Given difficult access by some key implementers, have attached PDFs of
>> relevant Mantis issues to these minutes.
>>
>> Suggest that absent any objections, we experiment further on feasibility
>> by adding them to X3Dv4 schema and X3DUOM. Specifically:
>>
>> - add viewAll field to X3DViewpointNode, Viewpoint, OrthoViewpoint
>> - add navigationInfo field to X3DViewpointNode, Viewpoint, OrthoViewpoint
>> - add Mantis prose for new NavigationInfo types
>> - apply Mantis prose to X3D4 draft specification on github
>>
>> As mentioned in last week's minutes, all comments welcome.
>> Implementation in X3D XML Schema/DTD, X3DUOM, tooltips and libraries soon
>> to follow in support of experimental testing.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 7. Noted invited-expert status and sent (another) request to grant
>> Mantis access for John Carlson, Michalis Kamburelis, Doug Sanden, Joe
>> Williams in recognition of their deep expertise, continuing contributions
>> and ongoing experience implementing both X3D and HAnim.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> 8. We are less than a month away to CFP deadline for papers for Web3D
>> 2020. Tutorial and workshop proposals follow shortly thereafter.
>>
>> This is our 25th anniversary. We expect to achieve significant attention
>> as a result.
>>
>> [19] Web3D 2020 Conference, Virtual Event
>> https://www.web3d.org/event/web3d-2020-conference-virtual-event
>>
>> [20] Web3D 2020, 25th International Conference on 3D Web Technology -
>> Submissions
>> https://2020.web3dconference.org/submissions
>>
>> ---
>>
>> As ever, all comments questions and improvements are welcome. Onward we
>> go, smartly together.
>>
>> Have fun with X3D4! Start writing for Web3D 2020! 8)
>>
>> all the best, Don
>> --
>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>> _______________________________________________
>> x3d-public mailing list
>> x3d-public at web3d.org
>> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>>
>
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