[x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19775-1:X3DArchitecture - V3.0
Don Brutzman
brutzman at nps.edu
Sun Jun 14 08:45:51 PDT 2020
Thanks for pointing at that Joe, very important and often overlooked. Agreed that it describes how our device-neutral definitions actually work, and that it could be very helpful to extend.
Doug, can you describe how your "MultiTouch using a Mouse" works?
Given that, Dick and I can accept/adapt/rephrase the wording for Annex G to define suggested practices for "MultiTouch using a Single Pointing Device".
On 6/14/2020 8:36 AM, Joseph D Williams wrote:
> For example:
>
> *WALK: forward/backward/left/right*
>
> *FLY: forward/backward/left/right*
>
> *EXAMINE: orbit up/down/left/right around center of rotation*
>
> * with camera pointed at center of rotation*
>
> **
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <mailto:joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 14, 2020 8:31 AM
> *To: *GPU Group <mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>; X3D Graphics public mailing list <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19775-1:X3DArchitecture - V3.0
>
> * Q. And could/should named navigation modes/types be
>
> How about some more work on:
>
> Extensible 3D (X3D) Part 1: Architecture and base components
>
> Annex G Recommended navigation behaviours
>
> (informative)
>
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/behaviours.html
>
> Several reasons the annex was informative at that time, or even attempted.
>
> Maybe more Is understood now, and this offers some guidance from some point in time.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> *From: *GPU Group <mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:28 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <mailto:x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19775-1: X3DArchitecture - V3.0
>
> Forwarding some comments on other channels
>
> Q. should specs > NavigationInfo attempt to abstract input / pointing device terminology
>
> - so gyros, game controllers/pads, touch screens, 3D pointing devices ?, HMD / AR gyro/view-center - can all be mapped more generically:
>
> Instead of mouse xy, it would be 'primaryXY channel' or 'primary 2D pointing device'
>
> Q. And could/should named navigation modes/types be specified in terms of the order and transform element being mapped to:
>
> WALK: yaw and Z are applied to last yaw-z pose, then pitch-roll applied
>
> FREEFLY: yaw,z,pitch,roll are applied in any order
>
> Perhaps something in a table format?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug Sanden
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:15 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com <mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> "have your ray loop forget about ID=2"
>
> One notable difference between a touch device and a mouse: a mouse has an up-drag. A touch doesn't.
>
> - that makes no difference to MultiTouch/MultiDragSensor, which only works with down-drags.
>
> Where you see the difference: isOver, and navigation modes that assume updrag is available - like proposed GAME mode.
>
> And what you do when a button / touch is 'released':
>
> - updrag-capabile input devices: you likely just change a button state, and keep drawing the cursor at the last location
>
> - updrag-incapable input devices - you likely release/forget/recycle the ID number
>
> SUMMARY: web3d specs may need more terms to describe input device classes and capabilities more abstractly
>
> - up-drags
>
> - drag-ID
>
> - drag-ID recycling
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:59 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com <mailto:gpugroup at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Drags need an ID ie 1,2,3 and that comes normally in windows 7 desktop WM_TOUCH events, or more precisely you can get an index number in a lookup table of touches.
>
> A mouse-friendly use of a MultiDragSensor:
>
> - your regular pointing device ray might be ID=1
>
> - to create a second ray, you can park/freeze ID=1 with some mouse or keyboard button ie MMB - and push a 2nd one with ID=2 onto a stack
>
> - then you would move drag ID= 2, until done with scaling and rotation, and unfreeze / pop to get back to dragging ID=1 - maybe same button- and have your ray loop forget about ID=2 after that, until the user repeats the cycle. Or something like that.
>
> SUMMARY: yes - it can be abstracted from touch devices, but you still need a per-drag ID.
>
> -Doug
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:18 AM Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org <mailto:spec-comment at web3d.org>> wrote:
>
> -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --
>
> Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V3.0
> MultiTouchSensor
>
>
> -----------------
> MultiTouchSensor > Touch vs Drag > MutliDragSensor
> In theory it should be called something that abstracts it from the particular
> type of input device.
> Drag is more input device neutral - there could be other device-neutral
> terms.
> For example a typical game controller has 2 thumb sticks that could act like
> 2 touches.
> A combination of device gyro -in HMD or mobile phone or Wii Controller- and
> freeze-button could shoot one ray, freeze it as one touch, then shoot another
> ray to drag.
> Internally, code works with a plane sensor xy origin when a button goes
> down/a ray is shot, then a drag xy is compared to the orgin xy to see how far
> in what direction: internally its drag-oriented and doesn't care what device
> shot the rays.
> -----------------
>
> Submitted on Saturday, 2020, June 13 - 11:18am
> by dougsanden (dougsanden )
> IP: 75.159.18.239
>
> See: https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4039
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d mailing list
> x3d at web3d.org <mailto:x3d at web3d.org>
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d_web3d.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> x3d-public mailing list
> x3d-public at web3d.org
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org
>
all the best, Don
--
Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
More information about the x3d-public
mailing list