[x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19775-1:X3DArchitecture - V3.0

Sun Jun 14 08:45:57 PDT 2020

Yes I see there's terminology it looks like its is mapping keyboard to work
as a pointing device
Hypothesis: there could be a way to remap EXPLORE (which is heavy in button
/ pointing-device-motion specifics)
a) write it more generally somehow
b) then as with Appendix G, do some device-specific mappings.
Same with (new v4) HELICOPTER, GAME motions - could they be written
generally like the WALK, FLY, EXAMINE - with very little talk about buttons
and pointing devices - and then somehow articulate mappings in Appendix G?

Here are some device scenarios
i) desktop 2 button + wheel mouse, full keyboard with arrow keys,
ctrl,shft,alt
ii) mobile - gyro, touch screen
iii) non-mobile touch screen
iv) HMD with gyro and viewport center
v) desktop game controller

EXPLORE could define 'drag / dragging' in such a way to share with
HELICOPTER, GAME and new ones if they can't be specified notion-lessly.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:36 AM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> For example:
>
>
>
> *WALK:      forward/backward/left/right*
>
> *FLY:       forward/backward/left/right*
>
> *EXAMINE:   orbit up/down/left/right around center of rotation*
>
> *           with camera pointed at center of rotation*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 14, 2020 8:31 AM
> *To: *GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>; X3D Graphics public mailing list
> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on
> 19775-1:X3DArchitecture - V3.0
>
>
>
>
>
>    - Q. And could/should named navigation modes/types be
>
>
>
> How about some more work on:
>
> Extensible 3D (X3D) Part 1: Architecture and base components
>
> Annex G Recommended navigation behaviours
>
> (informative)
>
>
>
>
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/behaviours.html
>
>
>
> Several reasons the annex was informative at that time, or even attempted.
>
> Maybe more Is understood now, and this offers some guidance from some
> point in time.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
> *Sent: *Sunday, June 14, 2020 6:28 AM
> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] [x3d] Spec Comment by dougsanden on 19775-1:
> X3DArchitecture - V3.0
>
>
>
> Forwarding some comments on other channels
>
> Q. should specs > NavigationInfo attempt to abstract input / pointing
> device terminology
>
> - so gyros, game controllers/pads, touch screens, 3D pointing devices ?,
> HMD / AR gyro/view-center - can all be mapped more generically:
>
>
>
> Instead of mouse xy, it would be 'primaryXY channel' or  'primary
> 2D pointing device'
>
>
>
> Q. And could/should named navigation modes/types be specified in terms of
> the order and transform element being mapped to:
>
> WALK: yaw and Z are applied to last yaw-z pose, then pitch-roll applied
>
> FREEFLY: yaw,z,pitch,roll are applied in any order
>
> Perhaps something in a table format?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug Sanden
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 12:15 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "have your ray loop forget about ID=2"
>
> One notable difference between a touch device and a mouse: a mouse has an
> up-drag. A touch doesn't.
>
> - that makes no difference to MultiTouch/MultiDragSensor, which only works
> with down-drags.
>
> Where you see the difference: isOver, and navigation modes that assume
> updrag is available - like proposed GAME mode.
>
> And what you do when a button / touch is 'released':
>
> - updrag-capabile input devices: you likely just change a button state,
> and keep drawing the cursor at the last location
>
> - updrag-incapable input devices - you likely release/forget/recycle the
> ID number
>
> SUMMARY: web3d specs may need more terms to describe input device classes
> and capabilities more abstractly
>
> - up-drags
>
> - drag-ID
>
> - drag-ID recycling
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:59 AM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Drags need an ID ie 1,2,3 and that comes normally in windows 7
> desktop WM_TOUCH events, or more precisely you can get an index number in a
> lookup table of touches.
>
> A mouse-friendly use of a MultiDragSensor:
>
> - your regular pointing device ray might be ID=1
>
> - to create a second ray, you can park/freeze ID=1 with some mouse or
> keyboard button ie MMB - and push a 2nd one with ID=2 onto a stack
>
> - then you would move drag ID= 2, until done with scaling and rotation,
> and unfreeze / pop to get back to dragging ID=1 - maybe same button- and
> have your ray loop forget about ID=2 after that, until the user repeats the
> cycle. Or something like that.
>
> SUMMARY: yes - it can be abstracted from touch devices, but you still need
> a per-drag ID.
>
> -Doug
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:18 AM Spec Feedback <spec-comment at web3d.org>
> wrote:
>
> -- Submitter indicates that this comment may be public: *Yes* --
>
> Comment on 19775-1: X3D Architecture - V3.0
> MultiTouchSensor
>
>
> -----------------
> MultiTouchSensor > Touch vs Drag > MutliDragSensor
> In theory it should be called something that abstracts it from the
> particular
> type of input device.
> Drag is more input device neutral - there could be other device-neutral
> terms.
> For example a typical game controller has 2 thumb sticks that could act
> like
> 2 touches.
> A combination of device gyro -in HMD or mobile phone or Wii Controller- and
> freeze-button could shoot one ray, freeze it as one touch, then shoot
> another
> ray to drag.
> Internally, code works with a plane sensor xy origin when a button goes
> down/a ray is shot, then a drag xy is compared to the orgin xy to see how
> far
> in what direction: internally its drag-oriented and doesn't care what
> device
> shot the rays.
> -----------------
>
> Submitted on Saturday, 2020,  June 13 - 11:18am
> by dougsanden (dougsanden )
> IP: 75.159.18.239
>
> See: https://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/4039
>
>
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