[x3d-public] Feedbacks related to x3d.py: creaseAngle support by Triangle nodes
Andreas Plesch
andreasplesch at gmail.com
Wed Jun 17 12:53:38 PDT 2020
I noticed that there was not a lot of (any?) feedback.
We came across the lack of a creaseAngle field for TriangleSet because
this node was conceptually straightforward to use for occ x3dom export
but switched now to indexed nodes.
I do not know the VRML background but suspect that the fanset and
stripset nodes were possibly introduced because they offered hardware
based performance gains. In order to preserve these gains, perhaps the
more expensive creaseAngle field was reserved for nodes which were not
directly hardware accelerated. I would be surprised if this
performance aspect still applies to modern GPUs.
Another, related reason for the lack of creaseAngle may be the fact
that the field requires finding neighbouring triangles. This is
expensive, especially for the non-indexed geometries which would
essentially need internal indexing of vertices with duplication
checks. The typical use case for TriangleSet, on the other hand, is an
unconnected triangle soup where creaseAngle is not useful. This reason
would not apply to indexed geometries such as IndexedTriangleSet.
As as result, I think it is worth considering to start to deprecate
all FanSet and StripSet geometry nodes, and to add a creaseAngle field
to IndexedTriangleSet. Too radical ?
My two cents, -Andreas
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:09:19 -0700
> From: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>
> To: Thomas Paviot <tpaviot at gmail.com>, X3D Graphics public mailing
> list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Feedbacks related to x3d.py: creaseAngle
> support by Triangle nodes
>
> Open question: why isn't creaseAngle supported by the Triangle nodes? Seems like an unintended omission. All feedback welcome, we will resolve this during next Friday's X3D Working Group meeting.
>
> [1] X3D Architecture, Rendering component
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/rendering.html#IndexedTriangleSet
>
> IndexedTriangleFanSet,
> IndexedTriangleSet,
> IndexedTriangleStripSet,
> TriangleFanSet,
> TriangleSet, and
> TriangleStripSet.
>
> [2] X3D Architecture, Rendering component, 11.2.3 Common geometry fields
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/rendering.html#CommonGeometryFields
>
> "Certain geometry nodes have several fields that provide information about the rendering of the geometry. These fields specify the vertex ordering, if the shape is solid, if the shape contains convex faces, and at what angle a crease appears between faces, and are named ccw, solid, convex and creaseAngle, respectively."
> [...]
> "The creaseAngle field affects how default normals are generated. If the angle between the geometric normals of two adjacent faces is less than the crease angle, normals shall be calculated so that the faces are shaded smoothly across the edge; otherwise, normals shall be calculated so that a lighting discontinuity across the edge is produced. Crease angles shall be greater than or equal to 0.0 angle base units."
> Entered as
>
> [3] Mantis issue 1308: creaseAngle support by Triangle nodes
> https://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1308
>
> Thanks for the excellent feedback Thomas. If accepted following group review, these fields go directly into X3DUOM and then subsequent x3d.py build.
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 3:24 AM, Thomas Paviot wrote:
> > 2. I noticed the IndexedTriangleSet does not have any creaseAngle field, whereas x3dom supports it.
> >
> > >>> x3d.IndexedFaceSet(creaseAngle=0.2)
> > <x3d.IndexedFaceSet object at 0x000001EA5ED7A7B8>
> > >>> x3d.IndexedTriangleSet(creaseAngle=0.2)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > ? File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
> > TypeError: __init__() got an unexpected keyword argument 'creaseAngle'
> >
> > It actually follows the standard specification (https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/rendering.html#IndexedTriangleSet), my question is then related to the standard itself: why do the IndexedTriangleSet (and some other geometries) does not define the creaseAngle field ?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Thomas Paviot
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 00:03:14 -0500
> From: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> To: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>, Don
> Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>
> Subject: [x3d-public] Rereporting X3dToNodeJS.xslt possible divergent
> error
> Message-ID:
> <CAGC3UEm7cjB=XVLdp3t7iTMnbxDW_-+gp5q4x_D+jJqNhq0wRQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tis a puzzle. Perhaps missing material?
>
> $ node examples/HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js
> C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org
> \x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:399
> .addShaders((new autoclass.ProtoInstance("TestShader3",
> "ShaderProto")).
> setDEF("TestShader3").setName("ShaderProto"))
> ^
>
> TypeError: Cannot read property 'addShaders' of null
> at HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node.initialize (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org
> \x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:399:9)
> at new HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org
> \x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:123:10)
> at Object.<anonymous> (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org
> \x3d\stylesheets\java\node\e
> xamples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:470:1)
> ?[90m at Module._compile (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1176:30)?[39m
> ?[90m at Object.Module._extensions..js
> (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1196:1
> 0)?[39m
> ?[90m at Module.load (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1040:32)?[39m
> ?[90m at Function.Module._load
> (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:929:14)?[39m
> ?[90m at Function.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain]
> (internal/modules/run_ma
> in.js:71:12)?[39m
> ?[90m at internal/main/run_main_module.js:17:47?[39m
>
> coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/
> www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node
> $ node.exe !$
> node.exe examples/HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js
> WARNING_MESSAGE: ProtoInstance name='ShaderProto' DEF='TestShader3' USE=''
> is missing containerField relationship to parent node, assuming
> containerField='shaders' from initial node in corresponding ProtoDeclare.
> Need to fix ProtoInstance definition in model source.
> HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node execution self-validation test results:
> WARNING_MESSAGE: ProtoInstance name='ShaderProto' DEF='TestShader3' USE=''
> is missing containerField relationship to parent node, assuming
> containerField='shaders' from initial node in corresponding ProtoDeclare.
> Need to fix ProtoInstance definition in model source.
>
>
> coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/
> www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node
> $ node --version
> v14.2.0
>
> coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/
> www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node
> $ node.exe --version
> v14.2.0
>
> coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/
> www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node
> $ type node.exe
> node.exe is hashed (/c/Program Files/nodejs/node.exe)
>
> coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/
> www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node
> $ type node
> node is aliased to `winpty node.exe'
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 23:07:11 -0700
> From: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>
> To: John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Rereporting X3dToNodeJS.xslt possible
> divergent error
> Message-ID: <30dbd515-971a-25f4-df83-93e1ed055831 at nps.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
>
> John, I haven't announced a new release after the major refactoring. Did a number of improvements today to X3dForWebAuthors archive, not possible to overload X3D node names with an X3D file name.
>
> Not sure what the parent of 'addShaders' might be because you have cropped it here.
>
> had trouble telling what your intent was when inspecting my local code. should be workable since it came from the master smoke-test program.
>
> probably want to compare to the corresponding java code.
>
> can you run in debug mode?
>
> can we look at it together Monday? good luck!
>
> On 6/14/2020 10:03 PM, John Carlson wrote:
> > Tis a puzzle.? Perhaps missing?material?
> >
> > $ node examples/HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js
> > C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org <http://www.web3d.org>\x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:399
> > ? ? ? ? .addShaders((new autoclass.ProtoInstance("TestShader3", "ShaderProto")).
> > setDEF("TestShader3").setName("ShaderProto"))
> > ? ? ? ? ^
> >
> > TypeError: Cannot read property 'addShaders' of null
> > ? ? at HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node.initialize (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org <http://www.web3d.org>\x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:399:9)
> > ? ? at new HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org <http://www.web3d.org>\x3d\stylesheets\java\node\examples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:123:10)
> > ? ? at Object.<anonymous> (C:\x3d-code\www.web3d.org <http://www.web3d.org>\x3d\stylesheets\java\node\e
> > xamples\HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js:470:1)
> > ?[90m ? ?at Module._compile (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1176:30)?[39m
> > ?[90m ? ?at Object.Module._extensions..js (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1196:1
> > 0)?[39m
> > ?[90m ? ?at Module.load (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:1040:32)?[39m
> > ?[90m ? ?at Function.Module._load (internal/modules/cjs/loader.js:929:14)?[39m
> > ?[90m ? ?at Function.executeUserEntryPoint [as runMain] (internal/modules/run_ma
> > in.js:71:12)?[39m
> > ?[90m ? ?at internal/main/run_main_module.js:17:47?[39m
> >
> > coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node>
> > $ node.exe !$
> > node.exe examples/HelloWorldProgramOutput.Node.js
> > WARNING_MESSAGE: ProtoInstance name='ShaderProto' DEF='TestShader3' USE='' is missing containerField relationship to parent node, assuming containerField='shaders' from initial node in corresponding ProtoDeclare. Need to fix ProtoInstance definition in model source.
> > HelloWorldProgramOutput_Node execution self-validation test results:
> > WARNING_MESSAGE: ProtoInstance name='ShaderProto' DEF='TestShader3' USE='' is missing containerField relationship to parent node, assuming containerField='shaders' from initial node in corresponding ProtoDeclare. Need to fix ProtoInstance definition in model source.
> >
> >
> > coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node>
> > $ node --version
> > v14.2.0
> >
> > coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node>
> > $ node.exe --version
> > v14.2.0
> >
> > coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node>
> > $ type node.exe
> > node.exe is hashed (/c/Program Files/nodejs/node.exe)
> >
> > coderextreme at DESKTOP-DOPK2VD MINGW64 /c/x3d-code/www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node <http://www.web3d.org/x3d/stylesheets/java/node>
> > $ type node
> > node is aliased to `winpty node.exe'
> >
>
> all the best, Don
> --
> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br brutzman at nps.edu
> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA +1.831.656.2149
> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of x3d-public Digest, Vol 135, Issue 87
> *******************************************
--
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453
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