[x3d-public] What is "loa" ?
GPU Group
gpugroup at gmail.com
Mon Jun 22 17:07:09 PDT 2020
But I think there's room for both methods.
- the Motion node probably needs to conform to HAnim 2.0 specifications
already registered with (whatever body - is it ISO?).
- a few more non-hanim-standard nodes could be considered
- I proposed a few - HAnimMotionPaly + HAnimMotionData/HAnimMotionDataFile
-- Don suggested merging HAnimMotionData and DataFile. I suggested
HAnimMotionClip for the name
- HAnimMotionClip has the 3 data fields from Motion. But when loading from
url/,.bvh file, it doesn't populate those fields. Just uses them like
HAnimMotion when no url given.
So one way to make more of us happy:
- keep the HAnimMotion node as defined for HAnim 2,0 specs
- Do the MotionPlay + MotionClip additional nodes
-- put a url field tor Doug (and the freewrlians who like the option to
play with freely downloaded .bvh mocap files)
-- put MF fields for Joe who likes style sheet conversions and authoring
tool workflows
How does that sound?
-Doug
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 5:40 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can type in an image pixel by pixel into an MF field. Its more
> convenient to give a url to an image file.
> Same with .bvh.
> -Doug
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 5:34 PM Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> - Or - have web3d browsers load .bvh directly, via a mapping / lookup
>> node / field./ table which you would likely also need for import tools.
>>
>>
>>
>> As discussed in another thread mainly about actually importing a complete
>> bvh file, that is a legacy style that has the ‘official’ playback skeleton
>> is hidden (hanim V1 and x3d exposed it using the Humanoid skeleton field)
>> and the ‘user’ just imports his custom bvh file that is already matched to
>> the internal hidden playback skeleton and then it gets executed and user
>> gets some results. Maybe a video, even. Definitely not designed for
>> realtime interactions.
>>
>>
>>
>> As is seen using Motion node, this style looks easy at first, then gets
>> hard when you actually want to take control by editing the motion data, or
>> to load another data set, or to update the ‘standard’ playback skeleton or
>> imported capture skeleton.
>>
>>
>>
>> x3d hanim gets away from this legacy owner/user model by exposing the
>> playback skeleton and the animation structures directly to the author. And,
>> by using a coding scheme where animations do not need to be a part of the
>> Humanoid user code we are more happy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Joseph D Williams <joedwil at earthlink.net>
>> *Sent: *Monday, June 22, 2020 3:49 PM
>> *To: *GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>; X3D Graphics public mailing list
>> <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?
>>
>>
>>
>> - If so, then -as we get further from copy and pasta-ability- there
>> may be some demand for tools to import .bvh and convert to these x3d MF
>> fields.
>>
>>
>>
>> Right, I think the best idea would be to have a simple tool take the bvh
>> file and turn it into xml of gltf style that can be validated and
>> reformatted for editing. And, unless we want to treat strings like mf
>> numbers, strings need delimiting quotes.
>>
>> Thanks for the hanim thoughts.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> *Sent: *Saturday, June 20, 2020 1:23 PM
>> *To: *X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [x3d-public] What is "loa" ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hypothesis: the hanim motion fields were originally designed to make it
>> easy to copy and paste from freely available motion capture .bvh files.
>>
>> If so, then -as we get further from copy and pasta-ability- there may be
>> some demand for tools to import .bvh and convert to these x3d MF fields.
>>
>> Or - have web3d browsers load .bvh directly, via a mapping / lookup node
>> / field./ table which you would likely also need for import tools.
>>
>> -Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:38 PM GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/MotionDataAnimation/ExampleMocapAnimationMotionObject.html
>>
>>
>> This version of AnnexD is what I used - and it looks like an SFString 0
>> as does values and jpints
>>
>> WARNING - any examples from this AnnexD may need rework for web3d
>>
>> -Doug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:21 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>>
>> MUFTI you definitely want to be looking at the HAnim2 specifications.
>>
>> Web3D Consortium members are the controlling authority for X3D and HAnim
>> specifications, International Standards Organization (ISO) certifies.
>>
>> X3D3 is simply implementing HAnim2, typically as tersely as possible so
>> that there is no confusion in prose that HAnim2 is the controlling
>> specification. Please see
>>
>> * ISO/IEC 19774-1, HAnim2 Specifications parts 1 and 2
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/
>>
>> ===============================================
>> * ISO/IEC 19774-1, HAnim2 Specifications part 1
>> clause 3 Terms and definitions
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/glossary.html
>>
>> 3.11
>> level of articulation
>> LOA
>> degree of fidelity based on number of joints in an HAnim figure
>> ===============================================
>>
>> also
>>
>> * 4.8.5 Levels of articulation
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#LevelsOfArticulation
>>
>> "Level of articulation (LOA) represents the complexity and detail of
>> joints for a humanoid skeletal hierarchy, and can be used for generating
>> various motions based on the joints. There are five levels of articulation:
>>
>> LOA‑0 represents only the humanoid_root Joint object without an
>> accompanying hierarchy, as shown in (Figure 4.3).
>> LOA‑1 represents the simplest organization and hierarchy of joints
>> for a humanoid. There are 18 joints and 18 segments. Each segment has a
>> joint in the hierarchy. Figure 4.4 represents LOA‑1 joints.
>> LOA‑2 consists of 71 joints and 71 segments (Figure 4.5).
>> LOA‑3 consists of 94 joints and 94 segments (Figure 4.6).
>> LOA‑4 builds on LOA‑3 by adding anatomical details of hands and feet
>> (Figure 4.7). LOA‑4 consists of 148 joints and 148 segments. Hands and feet
>> joints for LOA‑4 are illustrated in 4.9.3 and 4.9.4 respectively."
>>
>>
>> * 4.9 Structure of a humanoid, 4.9.6 Hierarchy
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#Hierarchy
>>
>> * 4.9 Structure of a humanoid
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html
>>
>> * Annex A (informative) Nominal human body dimensions and levels of
>> articulation (LOAs)
>> Nominal human body dimensions and levels of articulation (LOAs)
>>
>> * A.2 Levels of articulation (LOAs)
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LevelsOfArticulation
>>
>> There is a lot of information in there that deserves careful reading.
>> You will find tables and diagrams that illustrate every joint and (bone)
>> segment in the human body, along with a number of useful feature-point
>> sites. This took years of effort by many members of HAnim working group.
>>
>> Current work by Joe Williams, John Carlson and myself is improving
>> past-legacy examples to match HAnim2 capabilities with X3D4. We hope that
>> testing and verification will help.
>>
>> * HumanoidAnimation X3D Examples Archive
>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/HumanoidAnimation
>>
>> * X3D Tooltips, HAnimHumanoid loa
>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/X3dTooltips.html#HAnimHumanoid.loa
>>
>> HAnim designers hope that by identifying both HAnimHumanoid models and
>> HAnimMotion animations with the LOA supported, it will be easier to
>> mix/match models and animations. Since each LOA is a strict subset of the
>> next LOA, some compatibility is possible across human LOA levels.
>>
>> * 4.9.7 Site and Segment relationships
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774/V2.0/Architecture/concepts.html#SiteSegmentRelationships
>>
>> It is not impossible to think that someday this work might even rise to
>> the level of rigor needed for 3D HAnim models becoming part of medical
>> records. HAnim and X3D4 have the potential to help... everyone.
>>
>> Thanks for your scrutiny and helpful questions.
>>
>>
>> On 6/18/2020 11:02 PM, John Carlson wrote:
>> >
>> > To answer your question, many parts of the government like to create
>> acronyms.
>> >
>> > John
>>
>> Sorry John, can't blame government for this one. (Wondering, are parts
>> of the government controlling your keyboard?!)
>>
>> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 12:38 AM J. Scheurich <mufti11 at web.de <mailto:
>> mufti11 at web.de>> wrote:
>> >
>> > hI,
>> >
>> > From
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3Dv4Draft/ISO-IEC19775-1v4-WD1/Part01/components/hanim.html#HAnimMotion
>> >
>> > SFInt32 [in,out] loa -1 [-1,4]
>> >
>> > What does "loa" mean ? Fieldnames in X3D are often english words,
>> > but the dictionary leo.org <http://leo.org> has no results for
>> "loa" 8-(
>> >
>> > so long
>> > MUFTI
>> all the best, Don
>> --
>> Don Brutzman Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>> Watkins 270, MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>> +1.831.656.2149
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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