[x3d-public] X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and demos

GPU Group gpugroup at gmail.com
Wed Mar 4 06:32:37 PST 2020


Thanks Andreas - yes I see a bit different channel packing and field naming
- with the same information, so I can implement now (somehow) and adjust
the field conventions when the specs are finalized. Thanks,
Doug Sanden

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 8:55 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com>
wrote:

> wow, great progress !
>
>
>
> https://github.com/x3dom/x3dom/blob/master/src/nodes/Shape/PhysicalMaterial.js
>
> has x3dom's PhysicalMaterial which largely is consistent and may not need
> too much work to make compliant with the finalized definition.
>
> I think I did notice that x3dom has some additional fields which were
> necessary for full gltf support. We likely discussed that and either
> thought these were outside the scope or should go into some other node. But
> I do not want to distract.
>
>  On a gltf related note, x3dom has BufferGeometry for gpu-friendly,
> efficient binary geometry storage. The path to bring this into the spec.
> may be to wait after gltf inline is more widely adopted. gltf inline will
> internally require dealing with such a geometry format. From there it
> should be a more digestable step to formalize a suitable node.
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 8:54 PM <x3d-public-request at web3d.org> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and demos
>>       (Michalis Kamburelis)
>>    2. Re: X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and demos (GPU Group)
>>    3. Re: X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and demos
>>       (Michalis Kamburelis)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 01:01:56 +0100
>> From: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
>> To: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>,  X3D Graphics public mailing list
>>         <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and
>>         demos
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAKzBGZPgxUfkv27NEnp6De+TJ3_BJ4d4TinzeAKhTN-WnHtn+g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Michalis,
>> > Q1. I downloaded today view3dscene_3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip and
>> master/pbr and ran all the samples and some seemed to work but this
>> particular sample all the teapots looked normal and shiny - does that mean
>> it couldn't find the material images?
>>
>> Tested, confirmed:
>> For some (unknown for now) reason, Jenkins didn't update the
>> view3dscene in snapshots (
>> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ ) after recent
>> merge of PhysicalMaterial implementation to CGE master. I kicked it
>> manually now. Thanks for reporting!
>>
>> Fixed:
>> Please get the latest view3dscene from
>> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ -- now
>> everything should work :)
>>
>> Tested:
>> ```
>> curl
>> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/view3dscene-3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip
>> -o v.zip
>> unzip v.zip
>> cd view3dscene/
>> ./view3dscene.exe pbr/physical_material/metallic_roughness.x3dv
>> ```
>>
>> -> this is the best way to use Windows :) But you can also download
>> through a browser like a normal human being :)
>>
>> > Q2. what if I'm a 'community member' of web3d -the free membership- is
>> there a way I can log in and get the pull?
>>
>> If you're a community member, then I think you should be able to
>> access -- someone just has to give you permissions to access
>> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/ . GitHub permissions are not
>> automatically synchronized with the Web3D membership status, as far as
>> I know.
>>
>> Don will hopefully answer better here.
>>
>> >From my side, I really really want Doug to see my PR :) (But please
>> bear in mind that it's work-in-progress, substantial edits are
>> incoming, at 13th of March I hope to make it more-or-less-complete :)
>> ).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michalis
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2020 17:36:53 -0700
>> From: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> To: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>,  X3D Graphics public mailing list
>>         <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and
>>         demos
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAM2ogRdwSQZzn+hfhLXL+73CCP6PC5AHtS3xYO_Ta1hnSMux2A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> OK thanks and the curl got the right one, renders like your screenshot now
>> thanks very much Michalis.
>> (but if I went back through something else then (some cache somewhere,
>> maybe local) would give me the older/stale version )
>>
>> I looked at the sample files and from that I inferred the following nodes
>> and fields (which I assume are subject to change)
>>
>> PhysicalMaterial
>>
>> baseColor SFVec3f
>>
>> baseTexture SFNode {ImageTexture,...}
>>
>> baseTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> normalTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>>
>> normalTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> roughness SFFloat
>>
>> metallic SFFloat
>>
>> transparency SFFloat 0
>>
>>
>>
>> Material
>>
>> diffuseTexture SFNode {ImageTexture
>>
>> diffuseTextureChannle SFInt32 0
>>
>> ambientTexture SFNode {ImageTexture}
>>
>> ambientTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> specularTexture SFNode {ImageTexture}
>>
>> specularTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> normalTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>>
>> normalTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> emissiveTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>>
>> emissiveTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> shininessTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>>
>> shininessTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>>
>> //you still have normal material fields
>>
>> diffulseColor SFvec3f
>>
>> emissiveColor SFVec3f
>>
>> specularColor SFVec3f
>>
>> shininess SFFloat 1.0
>>
>>
>> Can I start with this? I don't think it will take long to re-vamp if the
>> fields and nodes change.
>>
>> Q. Is there any etiquette/constraint about using the same image dimensions
>> for each material/physicalMaterial texture, perhaps relating to conserving
>> GPU samplers by using samplerArray?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 5:03 PM Michalis Kamburelis <
>> michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Michalis,
>> > > Q1. I downloaded today view3dscene_3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip and
>> > master/pbr and ran all the samples and some seemed to work but this
>> > particular sample all the teapots looked normal and shiny - does that
>> mean
>> > it couldn't find the material images?
>> >
>> > Tested, confirmed:
>> > For some (unknown for now) reason, Jenkins didn't update the
>> > view3dscene in snapshots (
>> > http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ ) after recent
>> > merge of PhysicalMaterial implementation to CGE master. I kicked it
>> > manually now. Thanks for reporting!
>> >
>> > Fixed:
>> > Please get the latest view3dscene from
>> > http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ -- now
>> > everything should work :)
>> >
>> > Tested:
>> > ```
>> > curl
>> >
>> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/view3dscene-3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip
>> > -o v.zip
>> > unzip v.zip
>> > cd view3dscene/
>> > ./view3dscene.exe pbr/physical_material/metallic_roughness.x3dv
>> > ```
>> >
>> > -> this is the best way to use Windows :) But you can also download
>> > through a browser like a normal human being :)
>> >
>> > > Q2. what if I'm a 'community member' of web3d -the free membership- is
>> > there a way I can log in and get the pull?
>> >
>> > If you're a community member, then I think you should be able to
>> > access -- someone just has to give you permissions to access
>> > https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/ . GitHub permissions are not
>> > automatically synchronized with the Web3D membership status, as far as
>> > I know.
>> >
>> > Don will hopefully answer better here.
>> >
>> > From my side, I really really want Doug to see my PR :) (But please
>> > bear in mind that it's work-in-progress, substantial edits are
>> > incoming, at 13th of March I hope to make it more-or-less-complete :)
>> > ).
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Michalis
>> >
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2020 02:53:37 +0100
>> From: Michalis Kamburelis <michalis.kambi at gmail.com>
>> To: GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu>,  X3D Graphics public mailing list
>>         <x3d-public at web3d.org>
>> Subject: Re: [x3d-public] X3D4 PBR specification review: updates and
>>         demos
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAKzBGZM+6ZA515h9R0y7_qJ7kpfZK_Gi5qUPDhptD2tAQ7OaNQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> The new nodes and fields are visible publicly in a concise way in CGE
>> repo already:
>> https://github.com/castle-engine/castle-engine/tree/master/tools/internal/x3d-nodes-to-pascal/nodes-specification
>> . So you don't have to guess them looking at examples :)
>>
>> Look into Shape.txt (
>>
>> https://github.com/castle-engine/castle-engine/blob/master/tools/internal/x3d-nodes-to-pascal/nodes-specification/Shape.txt
>> ) for most additions. Look there for
>>
>> - X3DOneSidedMaterialNode
>> - Material
>> - PhysicalMaterial
>> - UnlitMaterial
>>
>> These files are used to autogenerate some Pascal CGE code, so the
>> things written there reflect the CGE implementation. So it is tested.
>>
>> They are indeed subject to some change. At least:
>> - xxxTextureChannel may change to be a string, and the way it works may
>> change.
>> - X3DOneSidedMaterialNode will be removed, the new fields will be just
>> at X3DMaterialNode (I initially thought  that X3DOneSidedMaterialNode
>> is indeed, but after many talks about ""what to do with 2-sided
>> materials" it seems it is not necessary).
>> - shininessTexture and specularTexture will most likely merge into
>> just "specularShininessTexture" (with shininess in alpha).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Michalis
>>
>> ?r., 4 mar 2020 o 01:37 GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> napisa?(a):
>> >
>> > OK thanks and the curl got the right one, renders like your screenshot
>> now thanks very much Michalis.
>> > (but if I went back through something else then (some cache somewhere,
>> maybe local) would give me the older/stale version )
>> >
>> > I looked at the sample files and from that I inferred the following
>> nodes and fields (which I assume are subject to change)
>> >
>> > PhysicalMaterial
>> >
>> > baseColor SFVec3f
>> >
>> > baseTexture SFNode {ImageTexture,...}
>> >
>> > baseTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > normalTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>> >
>> > normalTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > roughness SFFloat
>> >
>> > metallic SFFloat
>> >
>> > transparency SFFloat 0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Material
>> >
>> > diffuseTexture SFNode {ImageTexture
>> >
>> > diffuseTextureChannle SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > ambientTexture SFNode {ImageTexture}
>> >
>> > ambientTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > specularTexture SFNode {ImageTexture}
>> >
>> > specularTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > normalTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>> >
>> > normalTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > emissiveTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>> >
>> > emissiveTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > shininessTexture SFNode {ImageTexture...}
>> >
>> > shininessTextureChannel SFInt32 0
>> >
>> > //you still have normal material fields
>> >
>> > diffulseColor SFvec3f
>> >
>> > emissiveColor SFVec3f
>> >
>> > specularColor SFVec3f
>> >
>> > shininess SFFloat 1.0
>> >
>> >
>> > Can I start with this? I don't think it will take long to re-vamp if
>> the fields and nodes change.
>> >
>> > Q. Is there any etiquette/constraint about using the same image
>> dimensions for each material/physicalMaterial texture, perhaps relating to
>> conserving GPU samplers by using samplerArray?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 5:03 PM Michalis Kamburelis <
>> michalis.kambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> GPU Group <gpugroup at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Michalis,
>> >> > Q1. I downloaded today view3dscene_3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip and
>> master/pbr and ran all the samples and some seemed to work but this
>> particular sample all the teapots looked normal and shiny - does that mean
>> it couldn't find the material images?
>> >>
>> >> Tested, confirmed:
>> >> For some (unknown for now) reason, Jenkins didn't update the
>> >> view3dscene in snapshots (
>> >> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ ) after recent
>> >> merge of PhysicalMaterial implementation to CGE master. I kicked it
>> >> manually now. Thanks for reporting!
>> >>
>> >> Fixed:
>> >> Please get the latest view3dscene from
>> >> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/ -- now
>> >> everything should work :)
>> >>
>> >> Tested:
>> >> ```
>> >> curl
>> http://michalis.ii.uni.wroc.pl/view3dscene-snapshots/view3dscene-3.18.0-win64-x86_64.zip
>> >> -o v.zip
>> >> unzip v.zip
>> >> cd view3dscene/
>> >> ./view3dscene.exe pbr/physical_material/metallic_roughness.x3dv
>> >> ```
>> >>
>> >> -> this is the best way to use Windows :) But you can also download
>> >> through a browser like a normal human being :)
>> >>
>> >> > Q2. what if I'm a 'community member' of web3d -the free membership-
>> is there a way I can log in and get the pull?
>> >>
>> >> If you're a community member, then I think you should be able to
>> >> access -- someone just has to give you permissions to access
>> >> https://github.com/Web3DConsortium/X3D/ . GitHub permissions are not
>> >> automatically synchronized with the Web3D membership status, as far as
>> >> I know.
>> >>
>> >> Don will hopefully answer better here.
>> >>
>> >> From my side, I really really want Doug to see my PR :) (But please
>> >> bear in mind that it's work-in-progress, substantial edits are
>> >> incoming, at 13th of March I hope to make it more-or-less-complete :)
>> >> ).
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Michalis
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>>
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