[x3d-public] [x3dom-users] Whither protoexpander in X3DOM? umm, just define input-to-output and write code

[Andreas Plesch]

I think the idea would be to use a Switch node as a wrapper around the
ProtoBody nodes. Sounds like an idea but Switch nodes only take
X3DChildNodes, so no Material nodes, for example. But perhaps there
was another thought.

I am trying to read through castle-engine and x-ite solutions but I am
not quite making sense of those. castle has some good and a bit scary
comments abouts ISing.

-Andreas

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:36 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don suggested a Switch node at one point (thanks Don).
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:28 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Internal namescopes and better parsing made nested ProtoDeclares
>> inside ProtoBody and internal ROUTEs work:
>>
>> https://andreasplesch.github.io/x3dom/test/functional/proto/inline.html
>> https://5ed144877a8ae8000756ddd1--x3dom.netlify.app/examples/functional/proto/inline.html
>>
>> I am still not sure how to think about multiple nodes in a ProtoBody
>> template since these are not scenes. Many examples seem to have only
>> one node, and only routes outside of it.
>>
>> Conceptually, it is pretty clear that the first node is THE node, and
>> other nodes do not render but are active and can be connected.
>>
>> Let's look at the Material Modulator example:
>> http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForWebAuthors/Chapter14Prototypes/MaterialModulatorIndex.html
>>
>> The main node is the Material node but then there are Script and
>> TimeSensor siblings, and routes.
>>
>> So the instance will be of Material node kind, an
>> X3DAppearanceChildNode. This allows the instance to be accepted as a
>> value of the Material field in an Appearance node.
>>
>> But the Script and TimeSensor sibling instances will not be able to
>> continue to live as siblings next to the instanced Material node since
>> they are not X3DAppearanceChildNodes. They will need to live somewhere
>> else but still be able to control the instanced Material node.
>>
>> So a straight transfer of a one to one instance to the scene seems out
>> of the question.
>>
>> I kind of hope I am missing something ? Is there another way to think
>> about Protoinstances ?
>>
>> Probably time to look at other code for inspiration.
>>
>> -Andreas
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 8:39 AM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I added a few more Proto test examples to
>> >
>> > https://andreasplesch.github.io/x3dom/test/functional/proto/inline.html
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > https://5ed100c873166e0006438ab0--x3dom.netlify.app/examples/functional/proto/inline.html
>> >
>> > That includes a NIST example which uses internal routing and one which
>> > has ProtoDeclare inside ProtoBody, nested five deep. These are good
>> > targets to get to work before thinking about fields and interface.
>> >
>> > https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/ConformanceNist/Miscellaneous/PROTO/index.html
>> >
>> > -Andreas
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 8:35 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > It turns out that github pages does not like serving all the little js
>> > > files making up x3dom separately.
>> > >
>> > > Here is a complete build with the example:
>> > >
>> > > https://5ed055bd4da4fa0007bf3d0a--x3dom.netlify.app/examples/functional/proto/inline.html
>> > >
>> > > -Andreas
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 6:43 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I could not resist a proof of concept for the subgraph inclusion part of Protos.
>> > > >
>> > > > https://andreasplesch.github.io/x3dom/test/functional/proto/inline.html
>> > > >
>> > > > This is an absolutely minimal start. There is only creation of
>> > > > instances, using only the first element in the ProtoBody. There is no
>> > > > ProtoInterface or events handling.
>> > > > It should work for all single node Protos.
>> > > >
>> > > > But it only took a few lines in the right place
>> > > > (https://github.com/andreasplesch/x3dom/commit/1e0ff82c2f7c77adcb521d62ff5172cf159943fb).
>> > > >
>> > > > I understand that only the first node in a ProtoBody is used for the
>> > > > template. It can be of course a grouping node. Other nodes in the
>> > > > ProtoBody can affect the first node with internal routing.
>> > > >
>> > > > Inline is in effect a grouping node but this will not translate to
>> > > > ProtoInstance. I will have to look at more examples to understand
>> > > > better how multiple nodes are inserted with a single ProtoInstance.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Andreas
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 3:09 PM Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Let me write down a few notes on ProtoDeclare/Instance.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > - The expander approach would be ok for x3dom as well but I am not
>> > > > > sure if it is easier to implement.
>> > > > > - These are Statements and would be handled separately from Nodes,
>> > > > > similar to ROUTE, in x3dom in NodeNameSpace.js
>> > > > > - in x3dom gltf inlines are handled by translation to a (by default
>> > > > > non-accessible) sub DOM, which is then tree parsed and added as a
>> > > > > subgraph in a child namespace to the main scene. Similar to
>> > > > > ProtoInstance this involves some processing before attaching to the
>> > > > > main scene. So I think it would be not too hard to do the same for
>> > > > > ProtoInstance by looking up the corresponding ProtoBody in a registry.
>> > > > > The registry is populated while parsing, looking for ProtoDeclare
>> > > > > elements.
>> > > > > - the main challenge is how to implement custom fields, and 'IS' ing.
>> > > > > For routing to ProtoInstances there needs to be a crossing of the
>> > > > > namescope boundary.
>> > > > > - ProtoInstances are more like Nodes than Statements, since they need
>> > > > > to be included in traversing the scene.
>> > > > > - not sure if x3dom currently has a way to send events into namescoped
>> > > > > subgraphs (via IS/connect), and capture events from those (via
>> > > > > IS/connect).
>> > > > > - perhaps it makes sense to have the ProtoInstance statement construct
>> > > > > a ProtoInstanceNode node to insert in the scenegraph. The statement
>> > > > > takes care of field definitions for the node, and the node takes care
>> > > > > of ISing and events during travesal.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > -Andreas
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 12:52 AM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > so perhaps this is the reasoning Leonard had.:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Developers and designers want the full power of the web.   If I restrict people to inlines, they can’t use standard tools to inspect the DOM, especially where it’s critical.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 1.   Should X3D4 allow all X3D elements in the HTML page or perhaps just a few?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 2.  Should X3D4 allow Protos on the main HTML page?  Or only in inlines?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > John
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Andreas Plesch
>> > > Waltham, MA 02453
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andreas Plesch
>> > Waltham, MA 02453
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andreas Plesch
>> Waltham, MA 02453



-- 
Andreas Plesch
Waltham, MA 02453