[x3d-public] Physically Based Rendering gltf examples in .x3d form; design approach confirmed, encourage X3D4 implementation

[John Carlson]

But there isn't a competition between X3D JSON and glTF JSON unless a
particular browser implements both.  Most browsers these days
implementing X3D JSON convert X3D JSON to DOM structures.   If someone can
send me some glTF which has been converted to X3D XML, I will work on a X3D
JSON version, but first name the browser which supports X3D JSON (I have 2
JavaScript versions and glTF-XML.  I also have a standalone C++ converter
from X3D JSON to X3D XML.

Also under discussion may be how to embed glTF inside X3D JSON.   Should we
add prose to the JSON WD?  Or fold it into Inline?

Thanks!

John

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 3:55 PM John Carlson <yottzumm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interestingly enough, we can convert glTF to X3D XML and thus to X3D JSON
> , I believe.   So there’s kind of a competition between the two JSON
> encodings.
>
> I assume that if Web3D accepts a standard, we can use the standard like
> any other X3D standard?
>
> John
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 12:19 PM Don Brutzman <brutzman at nps.edu> wrote:
>
>> Meeting today: Michalis Dick Don, regrets (and feedback) from Andreas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michalis has the following .x3dv examples prepared:
>>
>>
>>
>> [6] michaliskambi > x3d-tests > pbr
>>
>>      https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/tree/master/pbr
>>
>>
>>
>> He graciously agreed to export XML .x3d versions as well so I don't spend
>> time (or make errors) transcribing them in preparation for regression
>> testing.
>>
>>
>>
>> He will also add screenshots for each model so that everyone knows what
>> expected rendering looks like.
>>
>>
>>
>> We hope that this really facilitates other X3D4 implementations and
>> encourages consistent presentation.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above examples are all authored by Michalis and in open source, some
>> textures are by others and given appropriate credit.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/2020 7:32 AM, Don Brutzman wrote:
>>
>> > With X3D XML Schema and DOCTYPE complete, and X3D Schematron rules
>> addable without too much difficulty, we're ready for next steps.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > As part of examples improvements, am hoping to put them in our archives
>> so that regression testing can be performed.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [1] X3D Resources, Example Archives
>>
>> >
>> https://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/X3dResources.html#Examples
>>
>> >
>>
>> > May I suggest that we create an PhysicallyBasedRendering section
>> directory for these at
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [2] X3D for Advanced Modeling (X3D4AM) Examples Archive
>>
>> >      https://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/
>>
>>
>>
>> We agreed to put copies of them there, matching and in open source (of
>> course).  Thank you Michalis.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Wondering, where might I find the examples you've shown?  Am looking at
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [3] michaliskambi > x3d-tests >
>>
>> >      Include PBR (PhysicalMaterial and related concepts) in the
>> official X3D specification
>>
>> >
>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Include-PBR-%28PhysicalMaterial-and-related-concepts%29-in-the-official-X3D-specification
>>
>> >
>>
>> > and then
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [4] michaliskambi > x3d-tests > Converting glTF to X3D
>>
>> >
>> https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Converting-glTF-to-X3D
>>
>> >
>>
>> > and then
>>
>> >
>>
>> > [5] castle-engine > demo-models > glTF > sample models for Castle Game
>> Engine
>>
>> >      https://github.com/castle-engine/demo-models/tree/master/gltf
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Wondering how to establish a baseline.  Might it be possible to use
>> Castle Engine to Inline load each of these gltf examples and save each one
>> of them back out as X3D?
>>
>>
>>
>> He confirmed that, rather than Inline (which would be preserved verbatim
>> on saving) it is possible to
>>
>> - open a glTF model in view3dscene, then
>>
>> - save as X3D
>>
>>
>>
>> An update to the following converter is in progress to match the latest
>> X3D4 node signatures, will be finished soon.  At that point anyone can
>> perform this step via
>>
>>
>>
>> [7] Castle Game Engine: Convert everything to X3D
>>
>>      https://castle-engine.io/convert.php
>>
>>
>>
>> We will work on those Khronos-provided glTF examples after adapting his
>> existing examples for regression testing.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Primary format in the example archives is XML .x3d file encoding,
>> preforming maximum validations, then all other variants are then converted
>> from that in order to check proper X3D representations in X3DOM, X_ITE,
>> ClassicVRML, JSON, EXI, Java, Python, Turtle, and pretty-print HTML
>> documentation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Interestingly X_ITE and X3DOM versions are automatically provided as part
>> of this Web3D Examples Archive endeavor.  Helpful for checking.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Looking forward to getting into pair-wise production and publication
>> together.
>>
>> Additional implementations: the past week's work on XML Schema and X3DUOM
>> have each provided significant implementation checks that the interface
>> hierarchy is coherent and consistent, without internal contradictions.  X3D
>> Tooltips add clarity and link to various representations.  X3D Validator
>> provides error checking.
>>
>>
>>
>> [8] X3D Specifications: Schema and DOCTYPE Validation
>>
>>      https://www.web3d.org/specifications
>>
>>
>> https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dSchemaDocumentation4.0/x3d-4.0.html
>>
>>      https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dDoctypeDocumentation4.0.html
>>
>>
>>
>> [9] X3D Unified Object Model (X3DUOM) v4
>>
>>      https://www.web3d.org/specifications/X3dUnifiedObjectModel-4.0.xml
>>
>>
>>
>> [10] X3DJSAIL: X3D Java Scene Access Interface Library
>>
>>       https://www.web3d.org/specifications/java/X3DJSAIL.html
>>
>>
>>
>> [11] X3D Validator
>>
>>       https://savage.nps.edu/X3dValidator
>>
>>
>>
>> Next: Dick and I will work on clarifying X3D4 specification prose further
>> in a follow-on session this week.
>>
>>
>>
>> The three of us all think it is fair to say that the PBR design is now
>> complete and correct.  All of our major questions are answered
>> satisfactorily. We are next pursuing implementation and evaluation of
>> examples to confirm that conclusion. This work is already implemented in
>> open-source Castle Game Engine / view3dscene.
>>
>>
>>
>> Suggest that other rendering implementations can now proceed with a high
>> degree of confidence that integration of glTF, physically based rendering
>> (PBR) and non-photorealistic rendering (NPR) is feasible and ready for
>> implementation by other X3D4 players.
>>
>>
>>
>> Again thanks to Michalis for superlative design/implementation efforts,
>> again thanks to everyone who helped with many questions critiques and
>> contributions.  Totally impressive team effort.
>>
>>
>>
>> On our way... Have fun with advanced rendering in X3D4!!  8)
>>
>>
>>
>> all the best, Don
>>
>> --
>>
>> Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code USW/Br
>> brutzman at nps.edu
>>
>> Watkins 270,  MOVES Institute, Monterey CA 93943-5000 USA
>>  +1.831.656.2149
>>
>> X3D graphics, virtual worlds, navy robotics
>> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
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