[x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for X3DOM, X_ITE

John Carlson yottzumm at gmail.com
Mon Feb 8 08:35:51 PST 2021 

It would be best to get ALP in a form I can handle (I can’t read PDF).   I
suggest you could create a video or create an XML file with the proposed
PDUs

Thanks!

John

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 4:02 PM Christoph Valentin <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> What about writing an "NSN based DIS emulator"?
>
> I.e.:
> 1) rendering X3D DIS scenery
> 2) actually using the ALP
>
> KR
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Sonntag, 07. Februar 2021 um 04:37 Uhr
> *Von:* "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> *An:* "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> *Cc:* "Roman Onic" <roman.onic at kontron.com>, "Theo" <
> theodor.scherney at utanet.at>, "Markus Sonntag" <markus.sonntag at tmo.at>,
> matthias.weszelits at kontron.com, "Wriston Kevin" <Kevin.Wriston at kontron.com>,
> peter.beicht at kontron.com
>
> *Betreff:* Re: [x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for X3DOM,
> X_ITE
>
> additional King MIdAS Survey :-)
>
> https://areasharpa.blog/2021/02/07/your-points-for-king-midas/
>
>
>
> Gesendet: Samstag, 06. Februar 2021 um 23:34 Uhr
> Von: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> An: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>, "Roman
> Onic" <roman.onic at kontron.com>, peter.beicht at kontron.com,
> matthias.weszelits at kontron.com, "Wriston Kevin" <Kevin.Wriston at kontron.com>,
> "Theo" <theodor.scherney at utanet.at>, "Markus Sonntag" <
> markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
> Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for X3DOM,
> X_ITE
> Dear all,
>
> Would be a pity, if this discussion got lost in the archives.
>
> -> I have created a "provisional" project DIGITS and a first issue to
> discuss:
>
> 1st Issue: https://github.com/christoph-v/psark/issues/1[
> https://github.com/christoph-v/psark/issues/1]
>
> Prokject: https://github.com/users/christoph-v/projects/1[
> https://github.com/users/christoph-v/projects/1]
>
> All the best
>
>
> Gesendet: Montag, 25. Januar 2021 um 04:44 Uhr
> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>
> Cc: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>, "Roman
> Onic" <roman.onic at kontron.com>, peter.beicht at kontron.com,
> matthias.weszelits at kontron.com, "Wriston Kevin" <Kevin.Wriston at kontron.com>,
> "Theo" <theodor.scherney at utanet.at>, "Markus Sonntag" <
> markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
> Betreff: Re: Aw: Re: [x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for
> X3DOM, X_ITE
> This looks important for getting MBone or Multicast connectivity:
>
>
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/mil/navy/nps/bridge/MulticastRelayClient.html
> [
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/mil/navy/nps/bridge/MulticastRelayClient.html
> ]
>
> I haven't downloaded yet.
>
> Reached from:
>
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/dis-java-vrml/examples.html[
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/dis-java-vrml/examples.html][
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/dis-java-vrml/examples.html[
> http://faculty.nps.edu/brutzman/vrtp/dis-java-vrml/examples.html]]
>
> Have fun with multicast!
>
> John
>
> On 1/24/21 9:05 PM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
>
> > Good Morning, John.
> >
> > VPN means Virtual Private(!) Network.
> >
> > That means, it connects several private subnets over the insecure
> Internet in a secure way. Nobody out there can sniff, what's going on in
> your private subnets (unless he's equipped with "special" skills and tools
> and unless he's got the keys for the VPN).
> >
> > The story is different, if you use a VPN to just access the insecure
> Internet. The traffic is secure as long as it stays in the VPN, but at some
> point the traffic must leave the VPN, if the destination is in the
> Internet. From that point on, the traffic is transported in an insecure way.
> >
> > Security is not the reason, why I installed a VPN service on my vServer.
> >
> > The reason for our "Tiny Web3D VPN" is L2 connectivity. Each client in
> our VPN can reach each other client per MAC address. So broadcasting and
> multicasting should be possible in order to test the "server-less" mode of
> the ALP (in some future) or of the DIS (if you like, immediately, if you
> like with me, next weekend).
> >
> > Btw: did you already install the vpncal? If you use my "Tiny Web3D VPN",
> then I would really recommend to install the calendar of the VPN. We can
> then enter appointments about test sessions into the calendar.
> >
> > All the best
> > Christoph
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Gesendet: Montag, 25. Januar 2021 um 00:40 Uhr
> > Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> > An: "Christoph Valentin" <christoph.valentin at gmx.at>, "X3D Graphics
> public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> > Cc: "Roman Onic" <roman.onic at kontron.com>, peter.beicht at kontron.com,
> matthias.weszelits at kontron.com, "Wriston Kevin" <Kevin.Wriston at kontron.com>,
> "Theo" <theodor.scherney at utanet.at>, "Markus Sonntag" <
> markus.sonntag at tmo.at>
> > Betreff: Re: [x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for X3DOM,
> X_ITE
> > Attempts at bringing UDP into the browser:
> >
> > It would seem like UDP (for any higher level protocol) in the browser
> > would be "a thing." Indeed, there's even a W3C note:
> > https://www.w3.org/TR/tcp-udp-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/TR/tcp-udp-sockets/][
> https://www.w3.org/TR/tcp-udp-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/TR/tcp-udp-sockets/]], draft:
> > https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/][
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/]][
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/][
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/[
> https://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/raw-sockets/]]] and another note:
> > https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/[https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/][
> https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/[https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/]][
> https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/[https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/][
> https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/[https://www.w3.org/TR/raw-sockets/]]]
> I think the typical answer is "UDP
> > is not secure."
> >
> > https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify[
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify][
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify[
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify]][
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify[
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify][
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify[
> https://github.com/NetAsmCom/Socketify]]]
> >
> > Hmm.
> >
> > https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode[
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode][
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode[
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode]][
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode[
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode][
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode[
> https://github.com/networkprotocol/netcode]]] (netcode.io, secure UDP,
> > works with Unreal and Unity)
> >
> >
> > Hmm, netcode.io with chrome and ff:
> > https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser[
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser][
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser[
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser]][
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser[
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser][
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser[
> https://github.com/RedpointGames/netcode.io-browser]]]
> >
> >
> > A VPN connection on the local machine would also allow for a secure DIS
> > (or any protocol we choose), I believe.
> >
> > There are VPN is a browser solutions, so the question is, how do we
> > access the VPN from JavaScript?  Indeed, how does someone set up a
> > browser for VPN?  It appears like you don't set up your browser at all,
> > you just connect to the desired host (but the VPN server must decrypt
> > for the server your connecting to, so if you're using insecure UDP, your
> > packets will be in the clear.  If you use something like HTTPS over VPN,
> > then it's unecrypted by the web server, not the VPN server.
> >
> >
> > What I don't like about any VPN server, is that "it's not mine" or "I
> > have to pay a fee (albeit minimal)"
> >
> > So the only security the VPN offers over HTTPS, I think, is protecting
> > your IP address. Indeed, if you communicate in the clear over to your
> > TUN, then the VPN server sends it fully unencrypted to the target
> network.
> >
> >
> > How can I limit the VPN through a router so that it won't send
> > everything over the network through VPN, rather just specific X3D
> addresses?
> >
> >
> > So I'm thinking we should investigate ways of doing secure UDP, unless
> > the multicast addresses are on the VPN server.
> >
> >
> > Okay.  So google has HTTPS over UDP (I think), called QUIC). Node.js
> > implementation here:  https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html[
> https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html][https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html[
> https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html]][https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html[
> https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html][https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html[
> https://nodejs.org/api/quic.html]]]
> >
> >
> > Also:  https://web.dev/webtransport/[https://web.dev/webtransport/][
> https://web.dev/webtransport/[https://web.dev/webtransport/]][
> https://web.dev/webtransport/[https://web.dev/webtransport/][
> https://web.dev/webtransport/[https://web.dev/webtransport/]]]
> >
> >
> > I think I'm ready to read Christoph's paper.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > On 1/24/21 1:29 AM, Christoph Valentin wrote:
> >> Hello John, hello all, Don,
> >>
> >> Cannot leave this uncommented..........see *inline* at [CV:].
> >>
> >> KR
> >> Christoph
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 07:44 Uhr
> >> Von: "John Carlson" <yottzumm at gmail.com>
> >> An: "X3D Graphics public mailing list" <x3d-public at web3d.org>
> >> Betreff: [x3d-public] [CfP] Call for Participation. DIS for X3DOM, X_ITE
> >> I'd like to add "multiuser-aware" DIS to X3DOM and X_ITE, per this
> >> section of the X3D V3.3 standard (or we can go with X3D4 if there's  a
> >> link).
> >>
> >>
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> [
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> ][
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> [
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> ]][
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> [
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> ][
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> [
> https://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/dis.html#CommonDISfields
> ]]]
> >>
> >> I have used open-dis-python, open-dis-javascript, and
> >> node-disnetworkclient, so I think the only thing left is to define HTML5
> >> browser to/from node.js DIS enabled server (or python server, if you
> >> prefer).
> >>
> >> Christoph, could you do a write-up based on open-DIS of the technologies
> >> we could use in HTML5 browser to/from DIS sender/receiver gateway?
> >> [CV:]No (reason below)
> >>
> >>
> >> I suggest we start with X_ITE and work on fully implementing the DIS
> nodes
> >> there.  We may need to send the address and port from the HTML5 browser
> >> to the DIS sender/receiver (gateway).  I am not really sure what to do
> >> to handle multiple DIS ports and addresses on a page.  Something to
> >> think about in this case.  I don't know if the address/port is in the
> >> PDUs or not.  Someone can answer that?
> >>
> >> Do we need a DIS protocol which transmits addresses and ports? Seems
> >> like X3D does that?   How is DIS-EXI doing?
> >>
> >> Can we get xmlpg support for possibly adding addresses and ports to
> >> PDUs? How do we route to HMTL5 browsers?
> >>
> >> I suggest we reimplement https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway]][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway]]][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway]][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway][
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway[
> https://github.com/open-dis/DISWebGateway]]]] in
> >> javascript or python, so installs aren't a pain.   And if we go an
> >> XML/JSON route for browser to DIS network communication, we use EXI
> >> (comments?).
> >>
> >> There should probably be one person writing the back end and one person
> >> writing the front end.
> >>
> >> Are there similar efforts?  Christoph has shown an interest in planning,
> >> [CV:] You are right in that all people who are interested in X3D MU or
> >> in MU at all should cooperate. Would be funny, if the creators of
> >> collaborating did not collaborate :-)
> >> You are right, in that I have shown interest to be a part of this
> >> game in one or the other way.
> >> BUT IT IS A MISCONCEPTION to believe I would actively work on
> >> HLA/DIS implementations during my precious spare time.
> >> I once answered to Don - and I think everyone could read it - that
> >> I have done a personal decision to offer the scarce rest of my
> >> ressources to the Network Sensor (actually to the ALP) and to work
> >> for HLA/DIS only during office hours. If I install open-dis-python
> >> on my vServer, then it is just a favour to you personally, John,
> >> because I admire the diligence you show up, when pursuing your
> >> goals.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> x3d-public mailing list
> >> x3d-public at web3d.org
> >> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org[
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org][
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org[
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> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org[
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org]]]]
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> x3d-public mailing list
> >> x3d-public at web3d.org
> >> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org[
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org][
> http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org[
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>
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