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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Christoph Valentin
[mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 01, 2010 6:37
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> pyth7@verizon.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> X3D-Public@web3d.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [X3D-Public]
multiuser mode (newbie question)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>> As far as MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>> (i.e. Free as in free client AND server)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Unfortunately, I like the Network Sensor concept (due to its generality), and
don't forget:<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
* An X3D viewer is not required to support Java (either Internal in a Script
node or external)<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
* An X3D viewer is required to support ECMAScript in the Script node - if the
viewer supports the Script node<br>
* An X3D viewer is not required to support external SAI with ECMAScript<br>
(I copied these sentences from another forum, Author: Leonard Daly)<br>
<br>
When I use network sensors, it's possible to implement rather complex MU
animations/simulations just using <span class=GramE>ECMAScript, without being
dependent on the SAI/EAI.</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>[Russ Kinter] <span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>It’s called
cascading. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>One event from the network has the capability of triggering many
animations<span class=GramE>..</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>EAI when it is done properly is exactly the same way.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>You instance a <span class=SpellE>NetworkSensor</span> Node and I instance
a proto that is acquired by the Java. In both our cases it is the ECMA script
that does most of the work in terms of animations.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>You are dependent on the X3D browser implementing <span class=SpellE>NetworkSensor</span>
Node to communicate to the server and I am dependent on a Java Socket and
thread. We are both dependent on some extra feature to talk to the network. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>The difference is with EAI can do far more - I can communicate with
other Java programs.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>For example since Instant Player won’t play mp3 files I found an
open-source Java program that can and after writing a faux-Sound Node I can
play mp3 and other audio formats not supported by any X3D browser in a world.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>As far as the “mandatory” issue goes, I don’t think the <span
class=SpellE>NetworkSensor</span> is mandatory either at least when I search <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>http://www.instantreality.org/documentation/nodetype/ <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span class=GramE><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>it</span></font></i></b></span><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'> can’t be found. So I suggest both means of talking to the network are </span></font></i></b><b><i
style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>optional</span></font></i></b><b
style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;
mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>Don’t get me wrong the <span class=SpellE>NetworkSensor</span> Node is -or
rather- was a great idea until its protocol was allowed to be made proprietary.
God forbid profits should be missed out on because some amateurs could possibly
write an MU system using the <span class=SpellE>NetworkSensor</span> Node. For
me the whole proprietary protocol issue makes a sham out of claims of the spec
being open-source.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>Riddle me this: What is part of an open-source spec but isn’t itself open-source?
<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>Russ Kinter<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------- Original-<span class=SpellE>Nachricht</span>
--------<br>
Datum: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 19:10:05 -0500 (CDT)<br>
Von: pyth7@verizon.net<br>
An: christoph.valentin@gmx.at<br>
CC: X3D-Public@web3d.org<br>
Betreff: Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>>is there something else in the standard, that can be used for
multiuser mode (besides SAI/EAI)?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>To the best of my knowledge no -not as a standard per se.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>However some people have done interesting MU stuff with php:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://www.x-robot.com/">http://www.x-robot.com/</a><br>
<a href="http://3dchat.3d-check.com/">http://3dchat.3d-check.com/</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Paul Aslin has something similar as well -it may be the 3dchat link.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>As far as MU goes, SAI/EAI holds the most promise for low cost <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>(i.e. Free as in free client AND server)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Russ Kinter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Apr 30, 2010 04:23:34 PM, <a
href="http://service.gmx.net/de/cgi/g.fcgi/mail/new?CUSTOMERNO=28383878&t=de537344352.1272709485.54f3f8ca&to=christoph.valentin%40gmx.at">christoph.valentin@gmx.at</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #6699CC 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dear all<br>
<br>
I did some private (hobby) studies regarding multiuser mode and rather complex
scenes (combining content from different authors) and would like to ask, if you
could second my experiences,<br>
<br>
or if somebody disagrees (the whole project is documented at
http://simulrr.wordpress.com).<br>
<br>
See below<br>
<br>
I am aware of Network Sensor and DIS, is there something else in the standard,
that can be used for multiuser mode (besides SAI/EAI)?<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance<br>
Christoph<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>BS
Contact<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Supported
from the beginning of the project. Multi-user-mode with and BS Collaborate
definitively possible.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Octaga<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Supported
from spring 2009 onwards. Multi-user-mode with theoretically possible, but no
free test version of collaboration server available -> multi-user-mode
cannot be supported currently.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Instant
Reality<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>First
trials positive. Yet unknown, whether Network Sensor node is supported or not.
According to X3D-public mailing list an open source multi-user-framework exists
(to be analysed).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Free
WRL<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>First
trials show, that is not supported → postponed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Xj3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>First
trials show, that Xj3D has problems with nested prototypes → postponed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>Vivaty<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Not
available AFAIK<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<h2><b><font size=5 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:18.0pt'>SwirlX3D<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></h2>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>First
trials not un-positive, but show up problems with viewpoints in prototypes,
proximity sensors in prototypes etc. → postponed<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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