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<DIV>Seems David A on this thread disagrees with you:</DIV>
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<DIV>May 3, 2010 04:42:15 PM, dave@realmofconcepts.com wrote:<BR>
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<DIV>Seems like a 'user defined' protocol should have been a required option, and<BR>a public version spec'ed out for anyone to implement. <BR><BR>But I can see why no commercial player vendor would implement such, they<BR>need to increase their user-base, you do that by requiring your player.<BR><BR>[Russ Kinter]: Moreover, even if what you and Chris say happens, If I were someone who paid for a server using the propietary protocol (and I think I know of two) and suddenly the latest version of the client switched to the open-source protocol I'd be pissed to put it mildly and either (depending on my budget)</DIV>
<DIV> 1. Can it entirely.</DIV>
<DIV> 2. Move to another format.</DIV>
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<DIV><BR>May 4, 2010 06:00:31 PM, cbullard@hiwaay.net wrote:<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">“</SPAN></FONT>To my thinking: the same motivation one would have to support openGL : increased portability and interoperability makes business sense to me.“</P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Mine too. Portability of content is what I want. As the artist, I don’t WANT to pick the radios.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Art production requires lots of time in. For the time in to pay out, content has to be resilient to shocks from the browser. That makes it hard to host and rehost anything but video. Some really easy to apply interface widgets can greatly improve productivity but are costly to experiment with on the host given the distribution of the host. Software kudzu. One response is to identify and reward the strengths of the software instead of working to perfect the deficits, in this case, take advantage of X3D’s relative isolation and agree quickly to build widgets that DO reduce the authoring load and are sharable among the local software ecosystem. </SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">VRML/X3D browser vendors should be collapsing the space for ease of authorship * maintenance, or roughly, how much time can be spent making new assets vs maintaining viable stock resources.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ultimately content domains like biological domains cohere in the face of novelty through practice, memory and feedback. A framework of response domains maps the services to the organizations that perform them in response to the panarchies that authorize them in response to the event/incident type. That is the key to resilience.</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">len</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org [mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Chris Thorne<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Monday, May 03, 2010</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">12:22 AM</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Russ Kinter<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> X3D Graphics public mailing list<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On </SPAN></FONT>3 May 2010 13:37, Russ Kinter <<A class=" parsedEmail parsedEmail" href="mailto:pyth7@verizon.net" target=_blank>pyth7@verizon.net</A>> wrote:</P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Chris Thorne [mailto:<A class=" parsedEmail parsedEmail" href="mailto:dragonmagi@gmail.com" target=_blank>dragonmagi@gmail.com</A>] <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sunday, May 02, 2010</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">8:35 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Christoph Valentin<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Russ Kinter; <A class=" parsedEmail parsedEmail" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" target=_blank>x3d-public@web3d.org</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [X3D-Public] multiuser mode (newbie question)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There appeared to be little will among the Browser vendors to collectively agree on and work on a standardised sensor node and protocol. It may also be that my expectations for real progress to an agreed standard in a 2 year time frame was unrealistic. Anyway, status quo seems a little better but nowhere near [my] original target, and I have moved on.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">[Russ Kinter] But at the end of the day what remains of the VRML/X3D community now has an open-source Node standard that really isn’t open-source.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">It is true there are no open source implementations of the proposed connection and network sensor nodes. but the nodes are not part of the standard as you seem to suggest.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Do you really believe that the two biggest and strongest players BSContact and Octaga with their own protocols are going play nice and help establish one protocol in the future?</SPAN></FONT></I></B></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I had thought it was to everyones advantage, including that of the Browser vendors..</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">What possible motivation would they have for doing so?</SPAN></FONT></I></B></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">To my thinking: the same motivation one would have to support openGL : increased portability and interoperability makes business sense to me. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT color=navy size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Maybe it is a way to force customers who use their MU servers to buy the new version, because the latest versions of the clients won’t handle the old protocol?</SPAN></FONT></I></B></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">yes - that is a kind of vendor lockin than many companies go for. That is their business decision and I respect that, tho I don't particularly like it. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">:) </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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