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Hi Lauren<br /><br />Completely agree.<br /><br />I should have better matched the "Network Sensor" with the "socket interface". Both have nothing to do with the actually used network and transport protocols.<br /><br />Regarding the MU Server topic, I'd historically match MU Servers with the different Networks (Ethernet, Token Ring, .......), where the network sensor + protocol tbd. would historically match to socket interface + TCP/IP.<br /><br />However, I'm no prophet, so future will show, if this comparison will have been valid :-)<br /><br />Thanks<br />Christoph<br /><br /><blockquote type="cite">
<p>-------- Original-Nachricht --------<br />Datum: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 05:55:34 -0500<br />Von: "x3d-public" <x3d-public@3dnpvei.com><br />An: "'Christoph Valentin'" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at>, x3d-public@web3d.org<br />Betreff: RE: UI Standards. WAS: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br /><br /></p>
Christoph, <br /><br />You were asking "how far?". And, IOW, my answer was 'that-is-how-far for MU UI standards, but why'. I wanted to help explore what it is you had in mind because I found it intriguing.<br /><br />>...if the pilot avatar has some properties that mandate to "run" the pilot avatar in a given instance.<br /><br />I did not mean to completely hijack this thread but, isn't that exactly was MU servers are for? If the avatar is in a different instance then that avatar is no longer pilot, right? You are talking about a MU client-server relationship and that is just what they (the MU servers) help do. Or do I not understand your point correctly?<br /><br />Likewise, tcp/ip can, like other protocols, be used in the context of a network sensor implementation, or any MU network for that matter (Network Sensor is only a name for a set of agreed-upon implementation parameters and methods. Just another link in the network chain. In and by itself doesn't really do anything. But I digress). <br /><br />Cheers,<br />Lauren<br />3dnpvei.com<br /><br /><br />From: Christoph Valentin [mailto:christoph.valentin@gmx.at] <br />Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:08 AM<br />To: x3d-public@3dnpvei.com<br />Cc: x3d-public@web3d.org<br />Subject: Re: UI Standards. WAS: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br /><br />Hello Lauren<br /><br />Thanks for your answers.<br /><br />ad "Interesting questions. What do you have in mind?":<br /> In his original answer, Dave wrote: "you would need it running a server,<br /> which may be localhost". I'm just thinking the next step: What, if is NOT localhost?<br /> Could have impacts on performance. And what, if the pilot avatar has some <br /> properties that mandate to "run" the pilot avatar in a given instance?<br /><br />2- X3D is the best example that standardization needs not necessarily preclude innovation,<br /> as long as the standard is flexible and extensible enough.<br /> However, it's always an art of timing (doing it not too early and not too late).<br /><br />3 - regarding DIS, I'd like to be "blind on that eye" :-)<br /> You know, I'm comparing the network sensor with TCP/IP (regarding its<br /> historical relevance)<br /><br />All the best<br />Christoph<br /><br /><br />-------- Original-Nachricht --------<br />Datum: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 19:40:29 -0500<br />Von: "x3d-public" <x3d-public@3dnpvei.com><br />An: "'Christoph Valentin'" <christoph.valentin@gmx.at>, x3d-public@web3d.org<br />Betreff: UI Standards. WAS: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br /><br />Hello Christoph,<br /><br />Interesting questions. What do you have in mind? Let me try to answer. <br /><br />1- Perhaps in a third party view, but then the second browser instance would be controlling the pilot (if there is/was such an impmentation). So what's the difference? I am not sure what you are asking exactly. <br /><br />2- Good question perhaps. But do we really want avatar user-interface standardization? If you look at the game industry for example, innovations is a driving factor. Wouldn't standardization impede innovation in that regard?<br /><br />3- I think you may want to look into Distributed Interactive Simulation (DIS) and even Living Worlds for an historical perspective if you haven't (but I suspect you have). There have been some implementation efforts of these and other proposals, but MU user-interface standards??? I would refer back to question #2. <br /><br />4- You can download Avatar Studio 2 and patch files at officetowers.com (click My Avatar).<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Lauren<br />3dnpvei.com<br /><br /><br />From: x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org [mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org] On Behalf Of Christoph Valentin<br />Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 12:47 PM<br />To: Sven-Erik Tiberg; x3d-public@web3d.org<br />Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br /><br />Hi<br /><br />Some additional questions/thoughts............<br /><br />Opinion: The following sentence is true for any Web3D browser and any<br />multiuser system:<br />In any X3D/VRML multiuser session with M users and N instances of a<br />Web3D browser, each (pilot) user controls one pilot avatar and N-1 follower avatars.<br /><br />Question#1: Can we think of situations, where the pilot avatar and the user do<br />not share the same instance of the Web3D Browser, but use different instances?<br /><br />Question#2: How far is the interface between user and his pilot avatar<br />standardized? Do exist de facto standards?<br /><br />Question#3: How far is the interface between pilot avatar and his followers<br />standardized? Do exist de facto standards?<br /><br />Question#4: Could anybody recommend authoring tools for X3D/VRML avatars?<br />(pricing according to hobby use cases, it should be flexible and<br />extensible, fitting to any Web3D browser, best would be open source)<br /><br />Thanks for your help........<br /><br />Christoph<br /><br />-------- Original-Nachricht --------<br />Datum: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:03:17 +0000<br />Von: Sven-Erik Tiberg <Sven-Erik.Tiberg@ltu.se><br />An: Yvonne Jung <yjung@igd.fhg.de><br />CC: X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public@web3d.org><br />Betreff: Re: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br />Hi<br /><br />Open up new possibilities combining kinetik with instant reality AR!<br />David: you writes about a server can it be a server demon in the same computer that are running Kinetik / OpenNI and a X3D browser or application?<br />/Sven-Erik<br /><br />Skickat från min iPhone<br /><br />17 nov 2011 kl. 20:59 skrev "Yvonne Jung" <yjung@igd.fhg.de>:<br /><br />Hi,<br /><br />Kinect can be used together with Instant Reality:<br />http://doc.instantreality.org/tutorial/using-openni-devices/ <br /><br />Regards<br />Yvonne <br /><br />Am 17.11.2011 um 19:23 schrieb Dave A <dave@realmofconcepts.com>:<br /><br />I think you would need it running a server, which may be localhost, and talk to that via Ajax or network sensor. Of course if a browser can be extended via DLL, that browser could talk directly to the Kinect, but if you want it multi-platform, local server is the most generic.<br />OpenNI includes hand tracking. Not sure where they are with finger tracking yet. <br />OpenCV and OpenNI have been used together for extra tracking goodness.<br /><br />Dave A<br /><br />On 11/17/2011 1:50 AM, Sven-Erik Tiberg wrote: <br />The newly relesed Kinect SDK http://kinectforwindows.org/ seems interesting, but how to connect it to a X3D sceen. <br />Maybee trough some NetworkSensorNode using some protocol and JScript using libs from http://strophe.im/, or a C++ based X3Dbrowser but then it's limited to that browser.<br />This will give body gesture control, could it be possible to add OpenCV based code to add hand/finger control.<br />And can we use "brain position feedback control" to on the fly calibrate positions and will it introduse brain fatigue.<br /><br />Just some thoughts.<br /><br />/Sven-Erik<br /><br />________________________________________<br />From: x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org [x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org] on behalf of Damon H [web3dstudent@gmail.com]<br />Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 11:28 PM<br />To: John Carlson<br />Cc: X3D Graphics public mailing list<br />Subject: Re: [X3D-Public] When will see Kinect + X3D input? Soon? Here's Kinect + World of Warcraft<br />This is a step in the right direction.<br />Microsoft XBox 360 Kinect preview for X3D applications<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNxoPKj5tVs <br /><br /><br />On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:22 PM, John Carlson <john.carlson3@sbcglobal.net> wrote:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62wj8eJ0FHw<br /><br />_______________________________________________<br />X3D-Public mailing list<br />X3D-Public@web3d.org<br />http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org<br /><br /><br /><br />-- <br />3D Web & Metaverse builder<br />"We are all students of the emerging 3D web"<br /><br /><br />_______________________________________________ X3D-Public mailing list X3D-Public@web3d.org http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org <br /><br /><br />No virus found in this message.<br />Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<br />Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4621 - Release Date: 11/16/11<br />_______________________________________________<br />X3D-Public mailing list<br />X3D-Public@web3d.org<br />http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org<br /><br /><br /><br />-- <br />NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurück-Garantie! <br />Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone<br /><br /><br /><br />-- <br />NEU: FreePhone - 0ct/min Handyspartarif mit Geld-zurück-Garantie! <br />Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone<br /><br /></blockquote>
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