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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">John,<br>
<br>
I think incorporating 3D SVG is beyond what is good for X3D,
though I will listen and work with anyone who wishes to make the
case for that.<br>
<br>
I think incorporating standard (2D) SVG into X3D file may be
beyond what should be done. At this time, I think if this is
needed, it is better that the run-time support the importing of
SVG definitions. I am not sure how that would work. If you have
any ideas, please let me know.<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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cite="mid:27A7B281-D171-4DBE-B267-CBB99D4F23CA@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If we support SVG, we may want to support 3D-SVG, where 2D is normal SVG, and a 3rd dimension specifies the “spline path” or path through 3D space—which may just be a straight line.
John
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<pre wrap="">On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:54 PM, John Carlson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a> wrote:
I think if we restrict Extrusions in V4+ to 2 spline points, that would work for me too. An easy fallback for V4 products to support V3 might be to ignore all points in the spline except for endpoints.
I think that when SVG is incorporated, if it is, then Extrusions from SVG (meta-SVG?) will become important, so we may want to keep Extrusions around.
John
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<pre wrap="">On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:21 PM, John Carlson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a> wrote:
All I would really like to see is an easy way to define Cylinder with 2 endpoints and a radius. If that is provided, I have no problem with deprecating Extrusion from the standard.
I do not think defining a Cylinder in this way would be onerous to a run-time, but I could be wrong. If someone could provide an example of a Cylinder like this, it would be great!
John
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<pre wrap="">On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:13 PM, John Carlson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a> wrote:
Uh, I asked for an IndexedFaceSet. Thanks, though.
John
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:11 PM, doug sanden <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:highaspirations@hotmail.com"><highaspirations@hotmail.com></a> wrote:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/41.x3d">http://dug9.users.sourceforge.net/web3d/tests/41.x3d</a>
snake animation animating extrusion spine
From: x3d-public [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org">x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org</a>] on behalf of John Carlson [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>]
Sent: January 26, 2016 6:04 PM
To: Leonard Daly
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
Subject: Re: [x3d-public] Extrusions, take 3
Maybe just show an example of an IndexedFaceSet which is an extrusion of a circle with 3 spline points, with the “bend” animated from 90 to 180 degrees.
It’s okay to use Blender or Maya, I’d just like to see what the results look like.
John
On Jan 26, 2016, at 8:01 PM, John Carlson <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">yottzumm@gmail.com</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"><mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
So how do you propose to animate IndexedFaceSets in a declarative or VRMLscript or JavaScript manner if they are Extrusions? Can we see an example? If the developer has to do it, can we help them?
John
On Jan 26, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Leonard Daly <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"><mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com></a>> wrote:
On 1/26/2016 3:21 PM, John Carlson wrote:
Leonard, I think you forget that Extrusion splines etc. can be animated. If Maya can export an Extrusion animation to X3D V4.0 and your new elements can handle animation of it, I think we are fine.
In Maya and Blender, extrusions are converted to IndexedFaceSets. These can be animated through the usual mechanisms in those applications. The results are typically stored in a FBX file. Unfortunately, the FBX format is not open and not too conducive to importing in a browser. Autodesk provides a C++ and Python API for accessing the file.
Extrusions are just a convenience node for creating a constrained IndexedFaceSet. I am working on exactly how X3D fits in the process chain from modeling tools to display. The goal is that X3D is an declarative archivable format that has a browser-based run time. The goal is to not reduce the display capability of X3D in that chain; however, not all of the functionality of X3D V3.3 is necessary to remain in the node definitions to make that happen.
Animation of the spline and cross-sections of an extrusion is much easier for the developer, but puts a much greater load on the run-time as it needs to re-triangulate the result on each animation.
Leonard Daly
John
On Jan 26, 2016, at 1:47 PM, Leonard Daly <<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"><mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"><mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com></a>> wrote:
I would like to ask the question very differently. My question is not to ignore the importance of getting the definition correct for X3D <= V3.3.
Most (>95%) 3D modeling is done with a tool. In non-CAD environment, the tools is almost certainly Maya or Blender. Both of those tools have extrusions built in to their interface. I imagine CAD tools are similar. With so many tools providing graphical extrusion editors, and some of the tools being open-source (at least Blender);
Do we need an extrusion node in V4 to support content developed for V4+?
Leonard Daly
On 1/26/2016 7:15 AM, Alekseyev, Vsevolod (NIH/NIAID) [E] wrote:
Hi X3D community,
I've tried and failed twice to explain the problems with the definition of the Extrusion node. So here's a tl;dr version:
Dear authors of the X3D standard, please take a careful look at the standard and answer me:
1) When the spine goes (0,0,0)-(0,-1,0), what is the CSP?
Note: all answers but one will render one of the reference models in the Savage archive invalid.
2) When the spine goes (0,0,0)-(0,1,0)-(0,0,0), what is the CSP?
3) When the spine goes (0,0,0)-(1,1,0)-(1,1,0)-(1,1,0)-(2,0,0), what is the CSP for the three middle points?
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LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future
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LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
X3D Co-Chair on Sabbatical<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
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