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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/24/2016 12:48 PM, John Carlson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:10B6ED29-0938-4F21-BA0C-741C669B9F84@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
I’m working on an example of using templates instead of Proto’s
with Meteor. I will try to get it out in the next couple of days.</blockquote>
<br>
John,<br>
<br>
Please see my most recent email with Yves on the list. Is that (in
concept) what you mean by template?<br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:10B6ED29-0938-4F21-BA0C-741C669B9F84@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">John<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Feb 24, 2016, at 3:38 PM, Leonard Daly <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);">John,<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGC3UEnYf1WQVXoqzFtnH+SOP=4keJPm_FZK8_ua=EKacwM1nw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<p dir="ltr" class="">I think the real question is, do
we need some kind of Script node on the web? With
fields and routes and everything that comes with it.
This is much harder to write than a Proto Expander and
much more useful. We can avoid Proto's with an
expander I'd say. I don't think scripts are in the
way of writing an expander (expander comes first), but
I could be wrong.</p>
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">I do no object to a PROTO expander
(MACRO). I think it could be quite useful. It would
allow the creation of potentially complex objects with a
simple node. Used carefully, it would allow the reuse of
some nodes (with DEF/USE) and allow a few nodes that
need to change from occurrence to occurrence.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGC3UEnYf1WQVXoqzFtnH+SOP=4keJPm_FZK8_ua=EKacwM1nw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<p dir="ltr" class="">We just need some effort to bring
script nodes into X3DOM. Can we use cobweb's?<br
class="">
</p>
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">I disagree with that for two
reasons:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">1) HTML/X3DOM already has scripts
in the form of standard JavaScript. If you are bringing
X3D into the DOM, then having two different types of
scripts would be really bad. One type is normal HTML
JavaScript, the other (X3D Script) requires definition
of fields, automatic calls (beginning and ending of
frames); and change to the event model.</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">2) Cobweb does not run in the DOM.
The entire set of X3D nodes is removed from DOM
consideration and completely handled separately. By the
time you figured out how to use Cobweb's script
handling; your are close to being integrated with the
DOM.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">The fundamental question for X3D
V4 is "</span><b style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><font class=""
color="#3333ff">will it be integrated into the DOM?</font></b><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">"</span><br style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Once that is answered, then a
whole lot of secondary questions are resolved and only
need development work, not design work.</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">In case any has any doubts, my
position is that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="" color="#3333ff"><b
class="">X3D V4 MUST be DOM integrated</b></font><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">.</span><br style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline
!important;" class="">Leonard Daly</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGC3UEnYf1WQVXoqzFtnH+SOP=4keJPm_FZK8_ua=EKacwM1nw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 24, 2016 1:03 PM,
"Leonard Daly" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com" class="">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">I
asked this before but I don't think I got any
answers. This is a slight rephrase of the question
to help make it clearer.<br class="">
<br class="">
I am looking for examples of PROTOs (either
internal or external) that are<br class="">
1) non-trivial<br class="">
2) do not use one or more Script nodes<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
By (1) I mean something that does something useful
that is not easy to do without using a PROTO.
Something like the Universal Media PROTOs (e.g.,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/UniversalMediaMaterials/_pages/page02.html"
target="_blank" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/UniversalMediaMaterials/_pages/page02.html">http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/UniversalMediaMaterials/_pages/page02.html</a></a>)
provide a lot of convenience to the X3D developer,
but each one just defines a Material node with
specific characteristics.<br class="">
<br class="">
A PROTO that is used repeated in a scene providing
a critical feature might be an example of
something that meets (1).<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
I am asking this to determine if it is necessary
or useful to have a PROTO expander (sort-of like a
MACRO). The expander would not support Script
nodes. If there are no examples to this question,
then it indicates that PROTOs need Script node(s).
Either way, this has an impact on the design of
V4.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="">--<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<font class="" color="#333366"><font class=""
size="+1"><b class="">Leonard Daly</b></font><br
class="">
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br class="">
X3D Co-Chair on Sabbatical<br class="">
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br class="">
President, Daly Realism -<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">Creating the Future</i></font></div>
</div>
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
x3d-public mailing list<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org" class="">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br
class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">
<div class="moz-signature" style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">--<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif"
color="#333366"><font class="" size="+1"><b class="">Leonard
Daly</b></font><br class="">
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br class="">
X3D Co-Chair on Sabbatical<br class="">
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br class="">
President, Daly Realism -<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Creating
the Future</i></font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
X3D Co-Chair on Sabbatical<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
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