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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I am just now getting back to emails
from last week. This response is only going to public to keep from
splitting threads. I also changed the subject to make it easier to
follow. Roy's original message has been edited down to the key
points for this subject. This email ONLY deals with X3D in HTML.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:002a01d1c270$46407490$d2c15db0$@ntlworld.com"
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<div class="WordSection1"><o:p> </o:p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->Clarify
what form the V4.0 specifications are likely to exist in</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
As Roy noted, this is the first time it has been recorded that there
is agreement. I was unaware of any disagreement about the structure;
which may help explain why it wasn't recorded, but just assumed.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:002a01d1c270$46407490$d2c15db0$@ntlworld.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->Clarify
if any major change, such as dropping SAI, is likely</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am not opposed to keeping SAI. I am not sure it has any value
except for backwards compatibility. I think it's ultimate fate is
better determined later in the process.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:002a01d1c270$46407490$d2c15db0$@ntlworld.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">c)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->Review
existing X3D implementations (X3DOM and Cobweb) to understand
the implications for those specifications arising from a) and
b)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">d)<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span><!--[endif]-->Review
other 3D implementations to see what lessons can be learned<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">The meeting discussions have contributed
significantly to a) and b). There was general agreement that
the existing ISO/IEC standards structure should be maintained,
with no major removal of features such as SAI. Despite raising
this subject on previous occasions, this is the first time
that any resolution of these questions has evolved, and been
recorded (at least it will be, when I have updated the wiki
page from yesterday).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Does anyone have any ideas about the
general structure of the specifications? What should the major
content be? I have not seen any expressed, other than Leonards
proposed changes to 19775-1, and my own general thoughts on
DOM extension. Inputs from anyone are always welcome.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Note that my proposal is more than changes to 19775-1 in that it
also includes encoding changes.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:002a01d1c270$46407490$d2c15db0$@ntlworld.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">We can now move on to actions c) and d).
We had some excellent input yesterday from Philipp with
respect to XML3D for d). While considering c) and d) we need
to also look for practical candidate solutions to the other
issues that we are aware of, such as:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Fields – DOMStrings vs
X3D Types<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Event models<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->DEF/USE vs ID/IDREF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Capitalization<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Namespace<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Scripts and Prototypes<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->(any I have missed)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I would suggest that event model (X3D vs. DOM) is the most important
of the above. When that is resolved several other issues (primarily
rendering - not listed above) will be handled. Many of the above are
defined in the HTML environment, so are not X3D choosable (e.g.,
capitalization). Others are more of a performance issue (strings vs.
numbers), or can be resolved by convention (namespace). I have yet
to see a viable proposal for handling X3D Scripts in an HTML
environment. I would add CSS to the list. It needs to be
specifically addressed, even if X3D V4 does not use it.<br>
<br>
I edited out the rest, because all I have to say about it is
"Agreed!" And Thank You Roy.<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
P.S. Here is the rest of Roy's comments.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:002a01d1c270$46407490$d2c15db0$@ntlworld.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0
level1 lfo3"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Of course, we don’t just write
specifications to concur with the implementations. But if we
find multiple candidate solutions to resolve a particular
issue, with no great differing technical merit, having a
proven implementation of one would be a significant factor.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I know that HTML/DOM are rapidly
changing environments, and we have to be careful about jumping
in. It is another area we have to keep up with. But we can’t
simply sit and watch. We need coordinated action. Someone has
to define a path forward, and encourage participation. And
currently, as I see it, a major proportion of that is study.
But while studying, lets also generate some practical output,
ready for the next phase (actually writing specifications)
when we are ready.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Solutions to issues will be found. They
may start as ideas contributed by individuals. Brainstorming
is an excellent activity. But they will arise more easily
with greater understanding.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Keeping X3D alive and active is not only
a technical activity but a marketing one. With no technical
activity, there can be no marketing. With no marketing, there
is less participation, and consequently even less technical
activity ….<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">The upcoming Web3D / Siggraph conference
is a major marketing opportunity. We have to supply technical
inputs to support that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">And another aspect I haven’t touched on
is priority. That is a business decision. While sound
decisions may be strongly influenced by external factors, they
also rely on sound technical inputs.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
X3D Co-Chair on Sabbatical<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
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