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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Following the open meeting held on November 9<sup>th</sup> further discussion of the same topic continued during the X3D WG meeting held on November 16<sup>th</sup>. The minutes of this second discussion are reproduced below. The minutes of the first discussion can be found at <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/005541.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/005541.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Roy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>X3D WG co-chair.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=================================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><u>Continued discussion of X3D/HTML/DOM Integration<o:p></o:p></u></p><pre style='margin-left:36.0pt'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Discussion topics from November 9<sup>th</sup> open meeting:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>For example, in order to integrate with the DOM/HTML event model what topics do we need to cover?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Do we need DOM/HTML element interface definitions, and what form should these take? Should these be of a similar nature to those in SVG 2 (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/">https://www.w3.org/TR/SVG2/</a>) or XML3D (<a href="http://xml3d.org/xml3d/specification/latest/">http://xml3d.org/xml3d/specification/latest/</a>)?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>What part should CSS play?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Do we need any additional nodes that might cover VR/AR/MAR/ or specific platform usage such as mobile?<o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>It was stated that X3DOM is a big step to standardization. Andreas felt that the X3D scene graph and event system should be preserved as much as possible, perhaps utilizing a small interface layer to enable integration. Industry commonly used web workflow and Javascript ideas should apply. Having Cobweb is good too. It is powerful to have two implementations, and appreciation was expressed to Andreas that he has been working on both, and in particular providing additional code for HTML integration with Cobweb.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>It was agreed that SVG is a good model to think about, with all SVG elements having DOM definitions. However, since SVG has a smaller set of capabilities than X3D, is it realistic to follow the same path? It would be a big and rigorous effort.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>With respect to CSS, it is not used much with X3DOM.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>VR/AR, mobile – yes, probably need additional nodes. Leonard has suggested some, e.g. for navigation.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Andreas modified execution model diagram was reviewed (see <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/attachments/20161115/bed28a39/attachment-0001.png">http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/attachments/20161115/bed28a39/attachment-0001.png</a>). This has additions to the original diagram in 19775-1 (see <a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/concepts.html#f-ConceptualExecutionModel">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/concepts.html#f-ConceptualExecutionModel</a>) for both SAI and DOM events.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Some discussion of DEF/USE versus id ensued. Andreas suggested that perhaps don’t have to equate them. Simply use DEF/USE for X3D ROUTES, and id for HTML. Both X3DOM and Cobweb allow both and treat them both independently, although X3DOM has an option for the Inline node called ‘mapDEFToID’ to link them that is not enabled by default (see <a href="http://doc.x3dom.org/author/Networking/Inline.html">http://doc.x3dom.org/author/Networking/Inline.html</a>).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Roy noted that in the two examples (see <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-svg-html-dom-integration-example-using-x3dom">http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-svg-html-dom-integration-example-using-x3dom</a> and <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-svg-html-dom-integration-example-using-cobweb">http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-svg-html-dom-integration-example-using-cobweb</a><span style='color:windowtext'>)</span> showing X3D integration into HTML, the content is essentially identical. In the Cobweb example, the bridge code generated by Andreas for Cobweb was included. However, it was noted that there were significant differences in the performance of the two implementations, particularly with respect to event management. The TouchSensor node is not implemented in X3DOM. Instead, authors are expected to use HTML event methods. On the other hand, Cobweb has no support for HTML interaction capability, such as OnClick.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Don has posted that FireFox now provides mobile support, and that both X3DOM and Cobweb render nicely (see <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/005544.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2016-November/005544.html</a>). It was noted, however, that X3DOM has been running on Android for over three years. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>The use of page up and page down to move between viewpoints was commented on, but it was noted that there are no keys on mobile hardware. It was suggested that buttons could be added to change viewpoints. Some examples do that. For VR it was noted that navigation needs to be much more flexible. Andreas commented that he has looked at some headsets, using the X3DOM classroom example, and noted that newer headsets come with controllers for the hands.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>The possibility of extending X3D to make a VR profile was discussed. X3DOM outputs to VR in an ad hoc manner using RenderToTexture to get each eye rendering. In comparison, WebVR has to interoperate with global VR standards. There is recognition of connected hardware within a web page. One mode of navigation in VR is to look around while moving. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>A-Frame was commented on. It was usually seen with full screen examples. It uses an entity/component model, and can be thought of as being built on three.js. Usage involves imperative coding.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Next steps for standards development were summarized. Differences between X3D and Cobweb were highlighted. Cobweb allows usage of SAI methods, X3DOM doesn’t. X3DOM allows modification via DOM methods. Cobweb does not support global events. X3DOM has an ‘OnOutputChange’ event type, that listens to any output event from any node.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>It was noted that other authoring tools, such as game engines, are a completely different. They are not declarative. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=================================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>