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<p>Great points!!</p>
<p>Sounds like a combination of the two is best.</p>
<p>I am afraid that if there is not strong advocacy for the
strengths of both, we will wind up with A-Frame only and unless it
is somehow extended will hobble rich webVR worlds for a longer
time than necessary.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/13/17 8:02 PM, Leonard Daly wrote:<br>
</div>
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type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/13/2017 6:55 PM, Michael Aratow
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p>Do we really need to have both A-Frame and X3D? This seems
to be making things unnecessarily complicated for VR content
authors. Either one or the other or something that is a
combination of the two?<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
[Usual caveats apply here -- this is a discussion of displaying 3D
in a web browser environment using a declarative HTML-like
language.]<br>
<br>
Only one will end up surviving. <br>
<br>
A-Frame is simple, easy to understand, and supported by some very
large and influential organizations<br>
<br>
X3D is complex, fully declarative, rich environment and is
frequently never heard of or ignored.<br>
<br>
A-Frame is not currently capable of handling (without coding)
Geospatial, volume, CAD, metadata, and 3D printing (though it is
usually the just the models that are printed). <br>
<br>
A-Frame's component system isolates individual elements of the
scene. It is difficult to impossible to build up a composite
structure of multiple elements. In X3D this is done as a Transform
containing another Transform containing ... So far, I have not
found a way to even Group elements together; however, it may be
beyond where my detailed reading has taken me so far.<br>
<br>
So far, I believe that it is difficult (or impossible) to have
your model in X3D and express it in A-Frame. I believe that it is
possible to have a separate file that is just a model and load
that (as geometry or geometry+texture). I think traditional X3D
(rigid-body, key-frame) animation cannot be done in A-Frame on
pieces of X3D models. <br>
<br>
I am trying to get at the basic philosophy of X3D and A-Frame and
see what use cases each cover and not cover. <br>
<br>
A-Frame appears to put each element in a box. The elements can
only change in pre-defined manners and two elements cannot merge.
X3D is far more flexible in this regard. I don't know how I would
handle certain types of visualization or user-controlled
on-the-fly geometry changes or arbitrary network updates in
A-Frame.<br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:45c89a1c-4475-fc9b-6a24-f4ea544c1349@noegenesis.com">
<p> </p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/11/17 12:57 PM, Andreas Plesch
wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:CAKdk67sgiy3wj7hnELHZ83_LMJex9Q5=S7shMJ6ABNqrLZ3hbQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">From:
Leonard Daly <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a>><br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
<br>
A-Frame's VR capability (as all of its rendering
capability) is provided<br>
by Three.js. I know that Unreal has rather extensive
VR (Rift, Vive)<br>
headset capability. I believe that Unity does too.
Since the focus for<br>
this talk was on browser-based VR, I couldn't spend
the time addressing<br>
VR capabilities of these platforms.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>True, A-Frame only provides the declarative DOM
layer, and three does all the rendering.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unity can export to webgl but I do not know if or
how it supports webvr.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
><br>
> Did you get feedback after your presentation ?
Anything you can share<br>
> would be interesting.<br>
<br>
Nothing significant. There was more in discussions
with other attendees<br>
at the conference who did not see my presentation.
I'll be posting that<br>
over the next month or so.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ok. thanks.</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
><br>
> The idea of combining of x3dom and A-Frame
somehow is interesting. I<br>
> think it would boil down to implementing a new
x3d browser on top of<br>
> A-Frame which may be quite possible. I
experimented by reimplementing<br>
> IndexedFaceSet and ElevationGrid in A-Frame and
think that geometry<br>
> and material nodes could be quite
straightforward. Not sure about<br>
> everything else but probably possible with a lot
of work. It also<br>
> would mean having a SAI on top of the DOM (as
being manipulated by<br>
> A-Frame and custom event interfaces). Your
presentation made a good<br>
> argument that there is a lot of value in having a
wide set of<br>
> standardized capabilites.<br>
<br>
Personally, I think putting X3DOM on top of A-Frame is
a bit like<br>
inverting a pyramid. A-Frame (as defined, not
extended) is a rather<br>
limited-capability system. I think it would be much
easier to put<br>
A-Frame on top of X3DOM -- except the part with
A-Frame extensions. I<br>
think a better choice is to merge the two keeping the
most important<br>
capabilities of both. I am formulating some ideas on
that.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well, the idea of A-Frame is to be extensible with
the hope that over time enough functionality emerges
so it becomes truly easy to use.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A-Frame takes care of parsing html (using html5
custom elements API I believe), helps with defining
nodes, and provides rendering and interaction basics.
To me it does sound like a good intermediate layer
between three and x3d. And it exists. Of course, then
all elements have to start with 'a-'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Andreas</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i> </font></div>
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