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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Attendees:  Roy Walmsley, Leonard Daly, Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Don Brutzman, Dick Puk, Michalis Kamburelis, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Apologies received: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Preliminary: <b><u>Welcome, and introductions, as necessary<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Roy welcomed everyone. No introductions were needed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Primary discussion topic: <b><u>SFString and MFString in the XML encoding – which quotation marks should be accepted?<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Ancillary topic: <b><u>MFxxxx fields – use of commas as value separators<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>         </span></span></span><![endif]>Introduction: Review of current and reference standards, led by the meeting chair<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19775-1:2013 clause 5.3.14 SFString and SFString (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19776-2:2015 clause A.4 Fields (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>Introducing JSON (<a href="http://www.json.org/">http://www.json.org/</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19776-1:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>ISO/IEC 19776-1:2016 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>HTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 8.1.2.3 Attributes (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>HTML 5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 9.1 Writing XHTML documents (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo3'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>o<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>   </span></span></span><![endif]>Extensible Markup Language (XML) 1.1 W3C Recommendation 4 February 2004, clause 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs [10] AttValue (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue">https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue</a>)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:72.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Roy opened the discussion with a short review of each of the above references. The reference from ISO/IEC 19775-1 did not have specific impact on the discussions. The next three references from ISO/IEC 19776-2, the Classic VRML encoding, define a string to be have double quotation marks (“), and MFStrings to be an array of strings enclosed in square brackets as array delimiters. Furthermore, an MFString with a single element does not require the square brackets. This principle, of not requiring square brackets for a single value, applies to all MFxxxx fields. The next two references, from ISO/IEC 19776-1, the XML encoding, define a string to have double quotation marks(“) and MFStrings to be an array of strings in single quotes (‘). The remaining three HTML and XML references define attribute values to be enclosed in either double quotes(“) or single quotes(‘).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Don highlighted the existing Mantis issue on this topic that collects some comments. This is issue 1091 - <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091</a> – entitled “Confusion between XML and X3D syntax for SFString”. The related Mantis issues 705 - <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705</a> – entitled “Escaping backslashes” and 488 - <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488</a> – entitled “Handling of quotation marks” were also noted.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Need to be careful with specifying what we mean by “double quotes” and “single quotes” or “apostrophes”. See <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn">https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn</a> and <a href="https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref">https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref</a> for XML standard. Michalis provided references to clarify this – see <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>The question was also raised about whether the requirement in the XML encoding for an MFString with a single value to be encoded using two sets of quotation marks could be relaxed, in effect dropping the outer set of quotes, just as the Classic VRML encoding drops the array square brackets.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>The need for backslash escaping was described. They are needed in the XML encoding because there is both an XML parser and an X3D parser. The question of whether there should be a difference between SFString and MFString escaping requirements was raised. Michalis reported that some implementations do not recognize escape sequences in SFString values – see <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Michalis noted that the X3D XML encoding is specific about what quotation marks to use, compared to XML. He suggested X3D should permit either sets of quotes, to match the XML / HTML standards. There was general agreement that the specific X3D requirements should be relaxed to match the XML specification for string attributes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>It was agreed that escape sequences are indeed required for MFStrings, but are not be required for SFStrings. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>It was proposed that alternative text for clause 5.15 in ISO/IEC 19776-1 should be written. During the discussion, there was a large number of e-mail exchanges on the public list, all stemming from the meeting agenda at <a href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html</a>. At the end of the meeting discussions Don and Michalis agreed to put forward new text for consideration.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Close of Meeting: <b><u>Thanks for participating and contributing<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Roy thanked everyone for their time to participate and the passionate contributions to the debate.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Roy Walmsley<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>X3D WG co-chair<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>