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At some point in the discussion of singles & doubles, I ask as
to the applicability of these discussions to the current V3.x
standard or a future V4.x standard. It was answered that the
discussion was for V3.x.<br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Attendees: Roy Walmsley, Leonard Daly,
Anita Havele, Vince Marchetti, Don Brutzman, Dick Puk,
Michalis Kamburelis, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Apologies received: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Preliminary: <b><u>Welcome, and
introductions, as necessary<o:p></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Roy welcomed
everyone. No introductions were needed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Primary discussion topic: <b><u>SFString
and MFString in the XML encoding – which quotation marks
should be accepted?<o:p></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ancillary topic: <b><u>MFxxxx fields – use
of commas as value separators<o:p></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><o:p><span
style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level1 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:Symbol"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Introduction: Review of
current and reference standards, led by the meeting chair<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19775-1:2013 clause 5.3.14 SFString and SFString (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/fieldsDef.html#SFStringAndMFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19776-2:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#Description</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19776-2:2015 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19776-2:2015 clause A.4 Fields (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-2/V3.3/Part02/grammar.html#Fields</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Introducing
JSON (<a href="http://www.json.org/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.json.org/</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19776-1:2015 clause 5.1.2 Description (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#5.1.2</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->ISO/IEC
19776-1:2016 clause 5.15 SFString and MFString (<a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19776-1/V3.3/Part01/EncodingOfFields.html#SFString</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->HTML
5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 8.1.2.3
Attributes (<a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/syntax.html#elements-attributes</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->HTML
5.1 W3C Recommendation, 1 November 2016, clause 9.1 Writing
XHTML documents (<a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/xhtml.html#writing-xhtml-documents</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:72.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1
level2 lfo3"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-family:"Courier New""><span
style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt
"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Extensible
Markup Language (XML) 1.1 W3C Recommendation 4 February 2004,
clause 2.3 Common Syntactic Constructs [10] AttValue (<a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#NT-AttValue</a>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:72.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">Roy
opened the discussion with a short review of each of the above
references. The reference from ISO/IEC 19775-1 did not have
specific impact on the discussions. The next three references
from ISO/IEC 19776-2, the Classic VRML encoding, define a
string to be have double quotation marks (“), and MFStrings to
be an array of strings enclosed in square brackets as array
delimiters. Furthermore, an MFString with a single element
does not require the square brackets. This principle, of not
requiring square brackets for a single value, applies to all
MFxxxx fields. The next two references, from ISO/IEC 19776-1,
the XML encoding, define a string to have double quotation
marks(“) and MFStrings to be an array of strings in single
quotes (‘). The remaining three HTML and XML references define
attribute values to be enclosed in either double quotes(“) or
single quotes(‘).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">Don
highlighted the existing Mantis issue on this topic that
collects some comments. This is issue 1091 - <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1091</a>
– entitled “Confusion between XML and X3D syntax for
SFString”. The related Mantis issues 705 - <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=705</a>
– entitled “Escaping backslashes” and 488 - <a
href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=488</a>
– entitled “Handling of quotation marks” were also noted.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">Need to
be careful with specifying what we mean by “double quotes” and
“single quotes” or “apostrophes”. See <a
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-common-syn</a>
and <a href="https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/charref</a>
for XML standard. Michalis provided references to clarify this
– see <a
href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006674.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">The
question was also raised about whether the requirement in the
XML encoding for an MFString with a single value to be encoded
using two sets of quotation marks could be relaxed, in effect
dropping the outer set of quotes, just as the Classic VRML
encoding drops the array square brackets.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">The need
for backslash escaping was described. They are needed in the
XML encoding because there is both an XML parser and an X3D
parser. The question of whether there should be a difference
between SFString and MFString escaping requirements was
raised. Michalis reported that some implementations do not
recognize escape sequences in SFString values – see <a
href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006690.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">Michalis
noted that the X3D XML encoding is specific about what
quotation marks to use, compared to XML. He suggested X3D
should permit either sets of quotes, to match the XML / HTML
standards. There was general agreement that the specific X3D
requirements should be relaxed to match the XML specification
for string attributes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt">It was
agreed that escape sequences are indeed required for
MFStrings, but are not be required for SFStrings. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:54.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:54.0pt">It was proposed
that alternative text for clause 5.15 in ISO/IEC 19776-1
should be written. During the discussion, there was a large
number of e-mail exchanges on the public list, all stemming
from the meeting agenda at <a
href="http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/pipermail/x3d-public_web3d.org/2017-May/006643.html</a>.
At the end of the meeting discussions Don and Michalis agreed
to put forward new text for consideration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Close of Meeting: <b><u>Thanks for
participating and contributing<o:p></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><o:p><span
style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt">Roy thanked
everyone for their time to participate and the passionate
contributions to the debate.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><o:p><span
style="text-decoration:none"> </span></o:p></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Roy Walmsley<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">X3D WG co-chair<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
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