<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Don,<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b21153ce-7dbd-1ea8-4923-91fa4c9a7ddd@nps.edu">Hi
Leonard. It was great to see that your project is progressing -
congratulations. Implementing and evaluating possible improvements
to X3D is always good.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thank you. That is much appreciated.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b21153ce-7dbd-1ea8-4923-91fa4c9a7ddd@nps.edu">
<br>
However your current motivation section has problems:
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I always appreciate comments to help word things better, but in this
case there is no problem in motivation phrasing.<br>
<br>
X3D in all public releases of the standard is not DOM integrated.
There are no public documents that explicitly show how a future
generation of X3D would be DOM integrated. That may happen in the
future, but that has been worked on without public results for over
three years. <br>
<br>
I have spent less than 3 calendar months part time putting XSeen
together with the very explicit purpose of being DOM integrated. It
uses DOM events, HTML scripts, and WebGL rendering that differ in
detail from what X3D does. I contend that neither X3DOM nor Cobweb
are fully integrated with DOM. Parts of their internal structure is
exposed to and interacts with DOM, but at least the event model is
not X3D or not DOM.<br>
<br>
I never claims that X3D was not declarative. In fact with few
exceptions (Shaders in particular), I think X3D is an excellent
model as the design of a declarative language. The language is quite
rich and expressive. To go beyond the basics in A-Frame requires a
developer (someplace in the chain) writing JavaScript code and
integrating it with the A-Frame API.<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:b21153ce-7dbd-1ea8-4923-91fa4c9a7ddd@nps.edu">
<br>
=======================
<br>
"Why Another 3D Language
<br>
<br>
Neither X3D nor A-Frame are designed as a declarative,
DOM-Integrated language. A-Frame has several deficiencies that
make it not suitable for the enterprise (see the presentation
"Declarative VR/3D Environment" given at SVVR2017). X3D is not
designed for the DOM. XSeen is very explicitly designed as a
language that is fully integrated with the DOM and has the
enterprise features of X3D."
<br>
=======================
<br>
<br>
As you well know, X3D is not a frozen capability and X3D
integration with DOM/HTML5 is the primary goal of X3D version 4.
This several-year effort continues to progress steadily. Multiple
major implementations have integrated X3D and DOM/HTML5: X3DOM and
Cobweb. Further, VRML/X3D design has always been declarative.
Successes keep accumulating, lessons learned keep growing, and
further improvements keep emerging thanks to cooperative work by
many people.
<br>
<br>
Saying otherwise is incorrect and confusing to others interested
in learning more about Web-based 3D technologies.
<br>
<br>
I recommend that you improve your motivation statements.
Correctly identifying strengths of relevant technologies makes
opportunities for progress more understandable. Getting clearer
also helps new work constructively influence ongoing X3D version 4
development activities, benefiting everyone.
<br>
<br>
Hope this helps. Thanks for your many contributions and
continuing efforts.
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/26/2017 12:46 PM, Leonard Daly wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The latest version of XSeen (V0.3) has
been pushed to GitHub. It includes initial work on Animation.
After looking at many different kinds of implementations of 3D
animations, I concluded that getting the developer involved in
the rendering pipeline for each frame was not needed, nor
desirable. X3D though the use of events for each stage of the
pipeline does put the developer in the "loop" and forces
inefficiencies, especially for pre-defined (key-frame)
animations.
<br>
<br>
While XSeen does not yet offer full key-frame animation (just
start/end points + transition style), it does illustrate how to
do key-frame animation without the developer in the middle of
each frame. This structure does hint at how the developer can
get access when needed.
<br>
<br>
In addition to code updates, there is now an XSeen project page
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://realism.com/xseen">http://realism.com/xseen</a>) where all of the test cases are
listed. Each test case can be executed from the web page and
displays as an overlay.
<br>
<br>
* XSeen project page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://realism.com/xseen">http://realism.com/xseen</a>
<br>
* XSeen code on GitHub:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/DrX3D/XSeen/tree/development">https://github.com/DrX3D/XSeen/tree/development</a>
<br>
* XSeen language definition:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.realism.com/specification/xseen/language-definition">http://tools.realism.com/specification/xseen/language-definition</a>
<br>
* XSeen internals documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.realism.com/specification/xseen/xseen-internals">http://tools.realism.com/specification/xseen/xseen-internals</a>
<br>
<br>
XSeen is built upon the architecture of X3D and A-Frame. The
JavaScript library is supported by THREE and TWEEN plus pieces
extracted from X3DOM. John Carlson provided the JSON to XML
converter. It is early-stage work and not everything is fully
developed out or functional. Please report any issues you have
with the software or documentation. Contributions are always
welcome. XSeen code is joint licensed as MIT / GPU. XSeen
documentation is licensed as Creative Commons Share-Alike (CC
BY-SA).
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
*Leonard Daly*
<br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant
<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair
<br>
President, Daly Realism - /Creating the Future/
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
x3d-public mailing list
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
all the best, Don
<br>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
</body>
</html>