<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Michalis,<br>
<br>
I think I now understand your concerns. I did not want to imply
that the comparison included all X3D capabilities. I tried to make
that clear though additional text prior to the table and
footnotes, but perhaps not clear enough. Do you have any
suggestions for making it clearer that the comparison does not
include all X3D capabilities?<br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAKzBGZMC2kC+7C6RBeiZdqs1yiUXozgGR=ccf0+8kstg-mKnrw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div dir="auto">My intention was not that I want to compare
specific X3D and glTF browsers.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I was pointing the fact that if the goal of
the table is to help people in choosing the format (X3D or
glTF), then comparing "X3D Interchange profile" vs "complete
glTF specification" is not perfect. You choose a subset of
X3D specification (I think all X3D browsers implement
something more than Interchange), and compare it with the
full glTF specification (that is unlikely supported by most
glTF readers).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I do not have a solution to this problem, I
know that designing a "fair"</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">- subset of glTF and</div>
<div dir="auto">- superset of X3D Interchange </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">...would be hard (lot of work, hard to do it
objectively, and outside of what you wanted to describe).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm only pointing that the current table
should not be used as a simple guideline "what I can
practically do with X3D vs glTF". And I fear it will be
taken as such -- the title of the page is "glTF/X3D
Comparison", and the fact that it's limited to X3D
Interchange profile may be lost to some people (or not
understood, if someone is coming from outside of X3D
community and doesn't know that "Interchange profile" is a
bare minimum in practice).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I hope that this explains my intentions
better.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">As for the "runtime" -- I see that my
understanding of this word was different than yours, so
please disregard my notes about them.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards,</div>
<div dir="auto">Michalis</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">22.09.2017 4:46 AM "Leonard Daly"
<<a href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a>>
napisał(a):<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_5239544301690783019moz-cite-prefix">Michalis,<br>
<br>
To compare X3D's runtime with glTF is not an
appropriate comparison. It has nothing to do with
the heaviness or lightness of X3D's runtime, but the
fact that glTF does not have one. <br>
<br>
If the work flow is to ingest models and make
modifications, then the runtime capabilities are
irrelevant to the extent that those capabilities do
not impose requirements on the importing tool. <br>
<br>
Since the addition of components of a profile is
strictly a browser choice, it does not have any
place in a comparison of specifications. This
comparison was not to establish test cases for bench
marking various browser that support glTF or X3D (or
both). This was strictly a comparison of features
that are in the specification.<br>
<br>
If you want to see a comparison of browsers please
feel free to go ahead and design and do the testing.
It is beyond my available time right now.<font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div class="elided-text">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>2017-09-21 23:40 GMT+02:00 Leonard Daly <a class="m_5239544301690783019moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><Leonard.Daly@realism.com></a>:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Since higher level X3D
Profiles include a lot of run time and glTF does not include any, it would
not be a fair comparison -- it wouldn't even be relevant. Someone might need
to work in a specific environment which would preclude X3D's runtime.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>But an X3D browser can implement the parts of X3D responsible for the
missing features (vs glTF, in your table) without "a lot of run time".
I know that it's more-or-less what I'm doing myself (details below).
If you consider some X3D browsers as "heavier" on resources than some
glTF browsers, then you should point and
compare these specific browsers, and mention that browser X (which
happens to use X3D) is heavier on resources than browser Y (which
happens to use glTF). As far as standards go, saying that X3D requires
"heavier runtime" for the same features is not true, in my experience.
I actually do implement in my X3D browser various features that you
list as missing in your table (since they are indeed missing from the
Interchange profile). I'm quite sure that implementing these features
does not make the runtime "heavy", at least not more than implementing
them using glTF would be.
Some details:
- Implementing [Indexed]QuadSet nodes (which is part of CAD component,
and provides "Quad surface model" feature in your table) is very easy,
and it does not require anything special from the runtime. It's just
another geometry node. (Some APIs, like OpenGLES, may not support
quads, but you don't pass polygons from IndexedFaceSet straight as
polygons to OpenGLES either.)
- Using shaders is something that all renderers do already, regardless
if it reads X3D or glTF. Exposing shaders to the X3D author is
relatively easy, and it does not require any "heavy runtime", you just
copy some data from X3D shader nodes to your renderer shaders.
- Implementing animations (using morph and joints) is indeed not
trivial (to do it efficient). But it's the same level of difficulty as
doing it with glTF.
- Implementing bump mapping etc. using X3D CommonSurfaceShader is the
same level of difficulty as implementing these features using glTF.
The input format doesn't really matter here much.
Regards,
Michalis
</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
</div>
<div class="quoted-text">
<div class="m_5239544301690783019moz-signature">-- <br>
<font
class="m_5239544301690783019tahoma,arial,helvetica
m_5239544301690783019san
m_5239544301690783019serif" color="#333366"> <font
size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the
Future</i> </font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
</body>
</html>