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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><b>Minutes of the X3D WG meeting held on Wednesday 18<sup>th</sup> October 2017 - Public Release</b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Attendees: Roy Walmsley, Dick Puk, Leonard Daly, Don Brutzman<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Apologies received: None<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>A. <b><u>Outstanding matters</u></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> None.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>B. <b><u>Summary and Technical reports</u></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'>Opportunity for anyone to make a short report on Web site, marketing, communication, specification or technical matters that is not already on the Agenda.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:36.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><u>Report on Mantis SG meeting held Thursday 12<sup>th</sup> October 2017<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2017-October/006418.html">http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2017-October/006418.html</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Roy reported that seven Mantis issues were reviewed. Four were agreed and updated to Assigned. Three needed further discussion and were updated to Acknowledged.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=2 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><u>Report on Mantis SG meeting held Monday 16<sup>th</sup> October 2017<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2017-October/006424.html">http://web3d.org/mailman/private/x3d_web3d.org/2017-October/006424.html</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Roy reported that eight Mantis issues were reviewed. Six issues were agreed and updated to Assigned. One needed further discussion and was updated to Acknowledged. The other needs feedback which will be requested via the public list.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Roy reported that the subgroup had also discussed ISO edition numbers, and considered whether to add these to the standards table, at <a href="http://www.web3d.org/standards">http://www.web3d.org/standards</a>. In so doing they noted that there were inconsistencies in the ‘Names’ column in the table that should be corrected. For example, two incorrectly had “IS”, and only one, H-Anim, had a descriptive name.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>The structure of the table was reviewed, and proposals for improvements put forward. One proposal was to rename the columns, changing “Name” to “ISO Identifier”, and “Common Name” to “Title”. Another proposal was to modify the links, changing the link on what is currently the “Common Name” to be the link to the HTML document, as readers are likely to click on that in the first instance. The current link of the “Common Name” to the properties page would then be added separately. It was also noted that the H-Anim standard 19774 appears in both tables. Furthermore, neither table has a title. It was agreed that the title of the first table should be “X3D standards”, and the title of the second should be “Other standards”, with the H-Anim standard being removed from the first table.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>It was also proposed that a paragraph should be added noting that the links in the tables are to the Web3D copyrighted versions, and if readers wanted the ISO copyrighted versions to links to both the ISO store page (<a href="https://www.iso.org/store.html">https://www.iso.org/store.html</a>) and ISO publicly available standards page (<a href="http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html">http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html</a>).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><i>[Co-chair note: I noted, for example, that the ISO/IEC 19775-1:2013 ISO store page at <a href="https://www.iso.org/standard/60760.html">https://www.iso.org/standard/60760.html</a> lists this standard as costing 158 CHF, with no mention that it is included on the ISO publicly available standards page.]<o:p></o:p></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=3 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><u>Report on H-Anim V2.0 CD2 standards progress<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><b>Member-only material<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=4 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><u>Report on draft C/C++/C# language binding standards progress<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><b>Member-only material<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=5 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1'><u>Automatic X3DOM building from Pull Requests<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><b>Member-only material<o:p></o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u>C. Discussion Topics<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:90.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><u>X3D integration into HTML5/DOM – Events and Event models<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3dhtml-integration-event-models">http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3dhtml-integration-event-models</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <a href="http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_V4_HTML_Integration_Requirements">http://www.web3d.org/wiki/index.php/X3D_V4_HTML_Integration_Requirements</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-v4-events">http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3d-v4-events</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Leonard summarized the structure of X3D events and HTML events. X3D events incorporate a data package, which can be small or large, and a time stamp, this latter as an ID, rather than actual time. HTML events are an object structure, including the source and target, event phase, whether bubbling, etc, as well as the data. HTML data packages tend to be limited in scope, most often passing data by reference.. In addition, HTML events have a user definable component.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>HTML has many specific event types, for example, mouse down, key down, scroll, etc. HTML also defines custom events. HTML has two phases for event handling. One is immediate handling of the event, prior to standard handling, when an event bubbles up through the tree looking for a handler.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>In summary, the two systems may not be completely incompatible, but they are not obviously compatible.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Roy asked what we want to do? For example, do we want to maintain backwards compatibility? Can we think in terms of DOM events affect the DOM, and X3D events affect X3D? How is event handling related to the rendering cycle?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Considering that we consider that within an HTML browser there will be both a DOM tree and an X3D scene graph in parallel, changes to DOM have to be passed to the scene graph, and changes to the scene graph have to be passed to the DOM. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>In HTML there is a call RequestAnimationFrame (see <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#animation-frames">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#animation-frames</a>, and <a href="https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/window/requestAnimationFrame">https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/window/requestAnimationFrame</a>) that is made when the browser indicates that animations, etc. should be updated before the next rendering cycle. Leonard noted that any code executed from this call has very little time to run. For example, to maintain the desired frame rate of 90 Hz for VR, any code execution during this call probably has less than 10 milliseconds.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>HTML 5.1 2<sup>nd</sup> Edition specification at <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/</a> was reviewed, and in particular the sub clauses at 7.1.4 Event loops noted (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#event-loops">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#event-loops</a>). Then sub clause 7.1.1 Introduction, within 7.1 Scripting, was noted (<a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#scripting-introduction">https://www.w3.org/TR/html/webappapis.html#scripting-introduction</a>), and in particular the fourth bullet point. These bullet points list mechanisms that can cause author-provided executable code to run. The fourth bullet point describes “Processing of technologies like SVG that have their own scripting features”. X3D would fit into that category. Leonard noted, however, that SVG scripts can access both DOM and SVG elements.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>For the two implementations Leonard reported that X3DOM does not have the standard HTML event handler mechanisms, as the code is too old. The situation with X_ITE was unknown.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>It was agreed that for X3D/HTML integration the use of HTML event handlers, that content authors are familiar with should be permitted. Also, it might be helpful to use terminology to differentiate HTML authors from 3D modelling authors.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>The discussion concluded with consideration of the next steps. These were agreed to be review of the two implementations X3DOM and X_ITE, and review of examples. These examples might include the “Rosetta stone” examples previously presented that looked at X3D/HTML/SVG integration into a single web page (see <a href="http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3dhtml-integration-dom-elements">http://www.web3d.org/member/wiki/x3dhtml-integration-dom-elements</a>).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=2 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2'><u>Review of Wikipedia pages<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>X3D - Reference: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X3D</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Web3D Consortium - Reference: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3D_Consortium">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3D_Consortium</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Not discussed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></p><p class=MsoNormal>D. <b><u>Specification work, GitHub, and Mantis issues<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></b></p><ol style='margin-top:0cm' start=1 type=1><li class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'><u>Mantis issue 1151 : 19775-1, 9.4.2 Inline - Inline is silent about head, component, unit, and meta statements<o:p></o:p></u></li></ol><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Reference: <u><a href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1151">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1151</a><o:p></o:p></u></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:54.0pt'>Not discussed.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:54.0pt'><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></p><p class=MsoNormal>E. <b><u>Schedule review<o:p></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><u><o:p><span style='text-decoration:none'> </span></o:p></u></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Other topics for discussion not yet assigned are:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='text-indent:36.0pt'>Investigate CSS with respect to 3D display capabilities.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>October 25<sup>th</sup> –<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Note: Daylight saving time ends for the UK and Europe on Sunday 29<sup>th</sup> October, therefore the meeting on November 1<sup>st</sup> will be one hour earlier for Europeans.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>November 1<sup>st</sup> – C/C++/C# Language Bindings Review<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Note: Daylight saving time ends for US on Sunday 5<sup>th</sup> November, so the meeting times will revert back to normal for Europeans.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>November 8<sup>th</sup> –<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>November 16<sup>th</sup> – <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>=======================================================================================================<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal>Roy Walmsley<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>X3D WG co-chair<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>