<div dir="auto">Hi Don,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">yes, I am looking forward to an initial proposal for such composition based on comparisons such as Leonard's:</div><a href="http://realism.com/blog/gltf-x3d-comparison">http://realism.com/blog/gltf-x3d-comparison</a><div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto">Well, I guess there are already two candidates: Michalis' Inline, and X3DOM s ExternalGeometry/Shape</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Inline seems more like an all or nothing approach and is probably what most would expect to find first.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Let's see if there is an appetite for more concerted progress.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Andreas</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 8, 2017 4:39 PM, "Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV)" <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
Thank you for the update and excellent insights Andreas. Yes we are working towards some form of composition with gltf 2 for X3D v4 such as external shape, and the X3D working group has produced a comprehensive comparison spreadsheet following multiple meetings.
I believe this is undergoing member review and hope that it will be released soon for even broader comment. There is a lot of promise and potential here, further progress will be great!<br>
<br>
<div id="m_-8811357293786878179AppleMailSignature"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Sent
from my handheld device</span></div><div class="elided-text">
<div><br>
On Dec 8, 2017, at 13:05, Andreas Plesch <<a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
</div><blockquote type="cite">
<div><div class="elided-text"><span>x3dom currently supports gltf 1.0 content with an ExternalGeometry and</span><br>
<span>an ExternalShape node. The ExternalGeometry node picks out just a</span><br>
<span>named geometry from a gltf scene, and the ExternalShape either a</span><br>
<span>single named node with geometry and material, or the complete scene,</span><br>
<span>as a group.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Lights, cameras (viewpoints), animations, skinning, morphing are all ignored.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>gltf 2.0 is aggressively pushed to phase out gltf 1.0 because it has a</span><br>
<span>better design and has required material support in the form of</span><br>
<span>PBR-metallic-roughness. A lot of content is already available in gltf</span><br>
<span>2.0 format. So the question becomes if x3d should start to</span><br>
<span>interoperate with gltf directly or just in the form of translators.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>The main benefit to support gltf for x3dom was to gain fast, efficient</span><br>
<span>loading of large meshes in a binary format (binary gltf or .glb is</span><br>
<span>very similar to src). It is possible to use blender for just geometry</span><br>
<span>modelling, and then to export as gltf 2.0. There are other and will be</span><br>
<span>more gltf exporting modellers as well. So this is still a valuable</span><br>
<span>goal and ExternalGeometry may persist.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>If this is the case, we may start to ask if and how gltf geometry</span><br>
<span>support should be formalized in the standard. Presumably, gltf would</span><br>
<span>have to become an ISO standard first ?</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>It seems also nice to be able to place fully textured gltf models into</span><br>
<span>a x3d scenegraph (say a car) and then use x3d nodes to interact or</span><br>
<span>animate. But such ExternalShape integration requires quite a lot of</span><br>
<span>functionality. The x3d browser will have to know how to shade PBR</span><br>
<span>materials and how to use texture maps for all related parameters</span><br>
<span>similar to common surface shader nodes in view3dscene. Presumably</span><br>
<span>there will have to be then also consideration of how x3d lights work</span><br>
<span>with both, PBR and X3D materials. Since PBR materials would have to</span><br>
<span>able to be rendered, PBR materials may also be exposed outside of gltf</span><br>
<span>ExternalShape content, with a PhysicalMaterial node. However, in</span><br>
<span>x3dom, I think, it would be easier at first to restrict PBR to just</span><br>
<span>gltf content since it would use dedicated shader code anyways.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>For ExternalShape use cases, a translator from gltf to x3d with</span><br>
<span>ExternalGeometry and PhysicalMaterial nodes may be also be a solution.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>I think embedded keyframe animations would need a translator to</span><br>
<span>Interpolators rather than direct support.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>I do not know enough about skinning and morphing and its relation to</span><br>
<span>HAnim to know if translation would be possible. One (key) aspect</span><br>
<span>aspect may be that morphing seems to be designed as deformation in the</span><br>
<span>shader. Not sure how collisions are then typically handled.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>So thinking through this a bit, it may already be useful to start</span><br>
<span>supporting ExternalGeometry for gltf 2.0 in x3dom which may be</span><br>
<span>feasible.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Any feedback, comments, questions would be very welcome,</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Andreas</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>-- </span><br>
<span>Andreas Plesch</span><br>
<span>Waltham, MA 02453</span><br>
<span></span><br>
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