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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/13/2018 9:58 AM, John Carlson
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:5af86eb7.1c69fb81.2121e.f6da@mx.google.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal">You may want to resubmit your 3TM and
          Planet changes to Mantis.  I searched for 3TM and Planet in
          Mantis (All Projects) and got nothing  significant back.</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">However, I was denied access to:</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a
            href="http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/1671"
            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/node/1694/submission/1671</a></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    This is the Web3D Specification comment form. 1671 is the submission
    ID. Only a few people (Anita, myself) have access to the spec
    comment submissions. All submissions are emailed to the X3D WG list
    and appear there.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:5af86eb7.1c69fb81.2121e.f6da@mx.google.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Why?</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">and there’s:</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a
            href="http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1215"
            moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/member-only/mantis/view.php?id=1215</a></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    For reference this issue is titled as "25.2.3 Specifying a spatial
    reference frame - Inaccurate UTM example" and is listed as public.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Leonard Daly<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:5af86eb7.1c69fb81.2121e.f6da@mx.google.com">
      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Not that I want to imagine writing schema
          for such a thing…that’s why I hope to get geoSystem into more
          reasonable shape in the Unified Object Model (we need
          volunteers, I think) before trying to do it in schema.</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
            href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
            moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div
          style="mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid
          #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
            </b><a href="mailto:gpugroup@gmail.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">GPU Group</a><br>
            <b>Sent: </b>Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:16 AM<br>
            <b>To: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br>
            <b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Invalid geoSystem values
            in X3D Resources BasicGeospatial examples.</p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">I think N should be OK, just as you say a
            redundant default.. I proposed several new things in the
            geoSystem field, submitted to spec comments a few months
            ago, so I hope your processor works on the new things if
            ever adopted.</p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">-Doug</p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">R,A,B,F,IF - ways to drectly specifiy
              the shape of the ellipsoid so other planet shapes and
              sizes could be modeled</p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">3TM - similar to UTM (except 3degree
              zones, no false northing or easting, different central
              meridian scale factor .9999)</p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">...</p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">I also proposed a Planet node - allows
              multiple planets in one scene</p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, May 13, 2018 at 6:14 AM, John
              Carlson <<a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
                target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
              wrote:</p>
            <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
              1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
              6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">The object model is expressive
                  enough to list conforming values, yet accept others,
                  but as far as I know (I may be wrong here), it is not
                  expressive enough to express supported geoSystem
                  values.   This is a problem.   How do we resolve it,
                  and should we, if we are accepting other values?   Is
                  it resolved in X3DJSAIL?  Should I get rid of Roy's
                  JSON subschema for geoSystem?<span class="hoenzb"><span
                      style="color:#888888"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#888888">John<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, May 13, 2018, 7:43 AM
                        John Carlson <<a
                          href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:</p>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                      6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">I believe the purpose of
                          schema is to support minimally acceptable
                          files.   It should flag files which are
                          questionable.   If a file can be brought into
                          conformance easily, shouldn't it be?</p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Yes, you should be able
                            to ignore the results of the schema
                            validation...at your own risk.</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">What is the purpose of
                            the X3D resources examples, but to show a
                            good example practice?  Or are we testing
                            tools to make sure certain values are
                            acceptable?   If that's the case, then the
                            schema should be updated for ALL versions.</p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, May 13, 2018,
                            7:31 AM John Carlson <<a
                              href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>>
                            wrote:</p>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                          #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                          6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Then the version of
                                the document should be upgraded to 4.0
                                or above, and the corresponding schema
                                updated.   I can upgrade the schema for
                                all versions, since it is hard coded
                                into the schema generator.   But really
                                we need support from the object model if
                                possible.   Right now, I have to
                                explicitly allow it for all versions,
                                since I use stdin/stdout instead of
                                files.  Does the unified object model
                                specify a version # in its contents? 
                                When the unified object model supports
                                "N" in a usable fashion, then I can code
                                something into the schema, or delete the
                                requirement to check geoSystem.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, away from
                                computer presently, or I would check.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">I don't see why Roy
                                went to all the effort to create a
                                schema, if we are going to ignore it?</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">This applies in many
                                areas...if we merely have supported
                                values, yet others must be accepted, why
                                is there a standard?</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">I don't believe it's
                                ambiguous in this case of X3D.   A
                                missing "N" means Northern Hemisphere.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, May 13,
                                    2018, 12:46 AM Andreas Plesch <<a
href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com" target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">andreasplesch@gmail.com</a>>
                                    wrote:</p>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote
                                  style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                  #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
                                  6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.web3d.org/specifications/19775-1/V3.2/Part01/components/geodata.html#Specifyingaspatialreference</a></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">lists the
                                        supported strings for the
                                        geoSystem MFString field.</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">The prose
                                        choosing 'supported' over
                                        'legal' or 'conforming' could be
                                        taken to mean that other than
                                        listed strings may be allowed to
                                        be supported as well by some
                                        browsers.</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">However,
                                        previous discussions indicate
                                        that schemas are not
                                        sufficiently expressive to
                                        describe unknown but conforming
                                        string values.</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">One
                                        resolution was to explicitly
                                        allow 'N' in upcoming X3D
                                        version, and perhaps silently
                                        allow it for 3.3.</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Outside of
                                        X3D UTM zones often have the N
                                        hemisphere identifier to avoid
                                        ambiguity.</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal">Andreas</p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <blockquote
                                          style="border:none;border-left:solid
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                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Date:
                                            Sat, 12 May 2018 19:54:17
                                            -0400<br>
                                            From: John Carlson <<a
                                              href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">yottzumm@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                            To: Don Brutzman <<a
                                              href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">brutzman@nps.edu</a>>, 
                                            X3D Graphics public mailing
                                            list<br>
                                                    <<a
                                              href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>><br>
                                            Subject: [x3d-public]
                                            Invalid geoSystem values in
                                            X3D Resources Basic<br>
                                                    Geospatial examples.<br>
                                            Message-ID: <<a
                                              href="mailto:5af77ea8.1c69fb81.7da1f.13e3@mx.google.com"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">5af77ea8.1c69fb81.7da1f.13e3@mx.google.com</a>><br>
                                            Content-Type: text/plain;
                                            charset="utf-8"<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Don, These files contain "N"
                                            in geoSystem, which I
                                            believe is not valid, and
                                            should be removed (default
                                            is Northern Hemisphere,  in
                                            the standard, I believe. "S"
                                            can be specified?not in this
                                            case).<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Is there a tool which hasn?t
                                            been changed which is </p>
                                        </blockquote>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                                    x3d-public mailing list<br>
                                    <a
                                      href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
                                    <a
                                      href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                x3d-public mailing list<br>
                <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">x3d-public@web3d.org</a><br>
                <a
                  href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a></p>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">x3d-public@web3d.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</a>
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    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
        <font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
        3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
        LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
        President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
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