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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, great to see other people using the proto expander!</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I don’t believe it’s native hanim, I believe it’s proto hanim.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So what’s next?</p><p class=MsoNormal>John</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 29, 2018 2:37 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:joedwil@earthlink.net">Joseph D Williams</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a>; <a href="mailto:x3dom-users@lists.sourceforge.net">x3dom mlist</a>; <a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: both X3DOM and X_ITE.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The Nancy prototypes example does not have scripts and was therefore</p><p class=MsoNormal>easier to adapt. It turns out the included HUD was the only obstacle</p><p class=MsoNormal>for have it work with x3dom and the protoexpander:</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>https://x-ite-nancy-protos.glitch.me/index.xhtml</p><p class=MsoNormal>uses</p><p class=MsoNormal>https://x-ite-nancy-protos.glitch.me/NancyPrototypesNoHUD.json</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The HUD reorientation routing is disabled here but the animation buttons work.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>So this should make this example a good target for basic, native hanim.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/ObjectInterfaces.html</p><p class=MsoNormal>http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/hanim.html</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>are the specifications to go by ?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Are Protos in http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA0ExampleSourceInVRML</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>the same as the Nancy protos ?</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Andreas</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 11:20 PM, Andreas Plesch</p><p class=MsoNormal><andreasplesch@gmail.com> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>> Ok, I will try to take out the scripts and make the example work with</p><p class=MsoNormal>> x3dom and John's expander, maybe further simplify. The next step would</p><p class=MsoNormal>> be to take a stab at blindly porting the proto's to x3dom and thereby</p><p class=MsoNormal>> discover potential problems.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Joseph D Williams</p><p class=MsoNormal>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Real fine, Andreas. Nancy is a ‘simple’ humanoid where simple means that</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> geometry is child of segment which gets driven by joint. When the joint</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> moves a segment, then the geometry moves as expected. Simple means the basic</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> hierarchy but no continuous-mesh skin.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Simple or Basic humanoid may be good target target then. Perhaps Basic</p><p class=MsoNormal>> is in a Profile ? I should look at the new spec.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> As you can see from the protos, nothing special about x3d is required</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> because x3d is already so special – that is unless you wanna get some real</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> skin in the game.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Yes, there is no script required to do that ‘simple’ character, and the</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> protos do not require any scripting.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> ok.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> The Nancy scripts are derived from the protos given in HAnim Part 1 Annex A</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> examples (VRML at this moment, but easy to figure out). So for a basic</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> humanoid there is nothing really new except the names of the various</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> humanoid skeleton and skin objects. Even the animations are completely</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> standard interpolators. Again, the only tough part is getting the skin to</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> work.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Also please notice in the spec where it is possible to create the</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> continuous-mesh skin from selected vertices of geometry that is part of a</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> segment. That is a possible way to leverage from geometries of the segments</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> to a full continuous-mesh surface.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sounds like something you really need a authoring system for.</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> -Andreas</p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> A collection is here:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> http://hypermultimedia.com/x3d/hanim/HAnimCollection20130818/0MainStageScene0818.x3dv</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> http://hypermultimedia.com/x3d/hanim/HAnimCollection20130818/HAnimCollection20130818.zip</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/JoeX3D/JoeX3D.htm</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> some other pieces:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Thanks and Best,</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> http://hypermultimedia.com/acontents.htm</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> From: Andreas Plesch</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 3:28 PM</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> To: Joseph D Williams</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Cc: John Carlson; x3dom mlist; X3D Graphics public mailing list</p><p class=MsoNormal>>> Subject: Re: both X3DOM and X_ITE.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> A quick follow up:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/NancyDivingProtoInstancesIndex.html</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> seems to be a good example for proto-based HAnim.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> It works in x_ite and perhaps is expandable.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> The scripts do not seem to part of the proto's ? If not, perhaps it is</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> possible to simplify and take those out ?</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> -Andreas</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch@gmail.com></p><p class=MsoNormal>>> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:24 PM, Joseph D Williams</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> From: Andreas Plesch</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> There just does not seem a lot of demand or requests by users or</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> customers. Of course, this may be a chicken and egg problem.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> And, that if you hae soething that works, like contact and instant, maybe</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> you don’t need to complain.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Or on the web look for other,widely available technologies.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> Contributions to x3dom or x_ite are always welcome, in any case.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> Great a contribution to either is a contribution to X3D.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Well said.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> For x3dom, my interest would be probably the glTF angle. glTF has</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> character animation. Here is an example:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> https://www.donmccurdy.com/2017/11/06/creating-animated-gltf-characters-with-mixamo-and-blender/></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> Great, I will look. The basic x3d hanim skeleton, bindings, animations,</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> and</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> geometries can be stored in gltf. I hope I can look back in the hanim</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> archives to see a comparison I did. No doubt gltf can transport the good</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> stuff with the only problem that gltf uses unit quats instead of</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> axis-angle.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> x3dom uses quats internally anyways, I think rotation field values are</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> immediately converted at parsing.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> The best explanation, apart from studying glTF loaders, is apparently</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> in this figure, sorry about that:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/master/specification/2.0/figures/gltfOverview-2.0.0a.png</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> OK, I will look for more recent info, but I don’t think anything in this</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> has</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> changed. Structure and data – names may be different but the data and its</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> application is the same. Now I know there may be some new tech but for</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> the</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> basics stuf, not much has changed in the last 20 years since hanim was</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> specified.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> The glTF spec. itself, I think, refers to the figure to explain meaning.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> translation of a simple glTF character to an HAnim humanoid would be a</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> good first step.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> A better first step would be to transcode an HAnim humanoid into gltf and</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> back again. From what I saw it would work. After all, it is all the same</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> structure and same data. I was going to work on the Boxman and the</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> JoeKick</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> models in the x3d hanim example archives.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Well, these are two steps. The simplest rigged skining glTF example seems</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> to be:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF-Sample-Models/tree/master/2.0/RiggedSimple</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> A functional, minimal subset of HAnim of nodes and/or a Proto-based</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> implementation of the nodes would also help implementers.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> Of course we have the proto-based nodes for HAnim where the geometries</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> are</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> children of Segments (bones) and we animate the skeleton. A prototype for</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> seamless skin animation is Boxman in x3d hanim archives - it needs a</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> fancy</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> script to move skin. Since there are no other features of x3d that</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> approximate the way skin is animated, there are no scriptless prototypes.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Ok: Here is the link:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypesIndex.html</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> But I do not see scripts ?</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Will there be an proto update for the new version of HAnim ?</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> A main challenge will be probably the requirement to have vertex</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> geometry manipulation in a shader on the GPU. This is done only for</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> displacement textures of a CommonSurfaceShader node currently in</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> x3dom.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> Yes, we need to control individual ‘skin’ vertices according to a simple</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> weighting algorithm depending upon rotation of one or more joints. That</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> has</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> been a problem, yet it is so basic, that and morph shape, that we should</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> have both features outside the Humanoid container.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Yes, morphing seems generally useful. I think glTF may use weighted</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> matrices but not sure.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> If anyone wants to learn character animation, anything you learn about</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> x3d</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> hanim will not be a waste of time. X3d hanim still documents an industry</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> standard approach where inputs were taken from all major toolmakers</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> because</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> strangely, even back in the late 1990’s there was great input from users</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> to</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> the biggies that they had to allow data to be exported and transported</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> between applications. Only the names were changed to prevent favoritism</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> and</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> preserve innocence – ooh, and to bring the secretive data structures and</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> bindings out into the open.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Ok. I will say that the HAnim prototypes which do not need scripts</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> should be possible, even straightforward to port to x3dom and probably</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> x_ite native nodes. John's protoexpander probably already could deal</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> with those. So the main challenge probably really is the GPU based</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> vertex displacing.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Is there any use in having the Grouping/Transform type HAnim nodes only ?</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>> Best, -Andreas</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Joseph D Williams</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>>> both X3DOM and X_ITE …</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> The discussions about both X3DOM and X_ITE are, to me, missing a very</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> important feature. Neither of these tools can do HAnim skeleton</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> controlled</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> deformable skin. This is a very important feature, lending itself to</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> many</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> important applications in addition to HAnim. There have been several</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> discussions about the hanim joint(s) to deformable skin bindings and as</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> far</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> as I have seen, there is no doubt that the way x3d specifies the basic,</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> most</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> simple, and most transportable technique to achieve the result. So, as</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> the</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> HAnim standard takes the next step, why not move a bit toward</p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> implementing</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> this important capability in your browsers. BSContact does it, I think</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> Instant does it mostly but x3dom and x_ite don’t.</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> Thanks and Best,</p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> Joe</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- </p><p class=MsoNormal>Andreas Plesch</p><p class=MsoNormal>Waltham, MA 02453</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>