<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>Probably BoxMan is the low hanging fruit to animate in X3DOM, since the body already displays. As far as I can tell, BoxManAnimationPanel.x3d contains no scripts, so it would probably be easiest to port.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com">John Carlson</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 29, 2018 9:18 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a>; <a href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard Daly</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>RE: [x3d-public] [x3dom-users] both X3DOM and X_ITE.</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>If it is not in the standard, can we identify what’s in JoeKick and BoxMan that Joe wants to see in X3DOM and X_ITE? Is it the same as Leonard’s proposal?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for you hard work. Sorry I’m managing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>John<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com">Andreas Plesch</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:06 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com">Leonard Daly</a><br><b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org">X3D Graphics public mailing list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] [x3dom-users] both X3DOM and X_ITE.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, it is unclear why morphing and skinning should be restricted to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>humanoids (which sounds a little like androids but more scary :) ).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I would just target the hierarchy nodes, eg. the simple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Transform/Grouping style nodes as they already work after (scriptless)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>expanding/templating. This should be hopefully not too much work, and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>only contribute a little more to xdom's already too large code size.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I do not have good idea how to do the vertex animation efficiently,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>eg. in the shader, other than a lot of effort.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-Andreas<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 4:21 PM, Leonard Daly <Leonard.Daly@realism.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Andreas,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> I have made the suggestions that X3D V4 include a "skin & bones" animation<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> node that is not H-Anim. This would be a basic skin animation based on<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> movement of bones, independent of any H-Anim body structure or naming<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> conventions. It is needed when animating flexible material such as cables,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> hoses, material, etc. This node could form the basics of H-Anim skin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> animation. I do not have a formal written proposal at this time.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Leonard Daly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The Nancy prototypes example does not have scripts and was therefore<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> easier to adapt. It turns out the included HUD was the only obstacle<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> for have it work with x3dom and the protoexpander:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://x-ite-nancy-protos.glitch.me/index.xhtml<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> uses<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://x-ite-nancy-protos.glitch.me/NancyPrototypesNoHUD.json<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The HUD reorientation routing is disabled here but the animation buttons<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> work.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> So this should make this example a good target for basic, native hanim.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/ObjectInterfaces.html<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/hanim.html<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> are the specifications to go by ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Are Protos in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19774-1/V2.0/HAnim/BodyDimensionsAndLOAs.html#LOA0ExampleSourceInVRML<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> the same as the Nancy protos ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> -Andreas<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 11:20 PM, Andreas Plesch<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <andreasplesch@gmail.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Ok, I will try to take out the scripts and make the example work with<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> x3dom and John's expander, maybe further simplify. The next step would<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> be to take a stab at blindly porting the proto's to x3dom and thereby<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> discover potential problems.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Joseph D Williams<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Real fine, Andreas. Nancy is a ‘simple’ humanoid where simple means that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> geometry is child of segment which gets driven by joint. When the joint<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> moves a segment, then the geometry moves as expected. Simple means the basic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> hierarchy but no continuous-mesh skin.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Simple or Basic humanoid may be good target target then. Perhaps Basic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> is in a Profile ? I should look at the new spec.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> As you can see from the protos, nothing special about x3d is required<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> because x3d is already so special – that is unless you wanna get some real<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> skin in the game.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Yes, there is no script required to do that ‘simple’ character, and the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> protos do not require any scripting.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> ok.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The Nancy scripts are derived from the protos given in HAnim Part 1 Annex A<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> examples (VRML at this moment, but easy to figure out). So for a basic<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> humanoid there is nothing really new except the names of the various<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> humanoid skeleton and skin objects. Even the animations are completely<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> standard interpolators. Again, the only tough part is getting the skin to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> work.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Also please notice in the spec where it is possible to create the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> continuous-mesh skin from selected vertices of geometry that is part of a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> segment. That is a possible way to leverage from geometries of the segments<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> to a full continuous-mesh surface.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sounds like something you really need a authoring system for.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> -Andreas<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> A collection is here:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://hypermultimedia.com/x3d/hanim/HAnimCollection20130818/0MainStageScene0818.x3dv<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://hypermultimedia.com/x3d/hanim/HAnimCollection20130818/HAnimCollection20130818.zip<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.hypermultimedia.com/x3d/JoeX3D/JoeX3D.htm<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> some other pieces:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Thanks and Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Joe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://hypermultimedia.com/acontents.htm<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> From: Andreas Plesch<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 3:28 PM<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> To: Joseph D Williams<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Cc: John Carlson; x3dom mlist; X3D Graphics public mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Subject: Re: both X3DOM and X_ITE.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> A quick follow up:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/NancyDivingProtoInstancesIndex.html<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> seems to be a good example for proto-based HAnim.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> It works in x_ite and perhaps is expandable.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The scripts do not seem to part of the proto's ? If not, perhaps it is<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> possible to simplify and take those out ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> -Andreas<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Andreas Plesch <andreasplesch@gmail.com><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 4:24 PM, Joseph D Williams<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> From: Andreas Plesch<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> There just does not seem a lot of demand or requests by users or<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> customers. Of course, this may be a chicken and egg problem.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> And, that if you hae soething that works, like contact and instant, maybe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> you don’t need to complain.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Or on the web look for other,widely available technologies.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Contributions to x3dom or x_ite are always welcome, in any case.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Great a contribution to either is a contribution to X3D.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Well said.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> For x3dom, my interest would be probably the glTF angle. glTF has<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> character animation. Here is an example:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://www.donmccurdy.com/2017/11/06/creating-animated-gltf-characters-with-mixamo-and-blender/><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Great, I will look. The basic x3d hanim skeleton, bindings, animations,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> geometries can be stored in gltf. I hope I can look back in the hanim<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> archives to see a comparison I did. No doubt gltf can transport the good<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> stuff with the only problem that gltf uses unit quats instead of<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> axis-angle.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> x3dom uses quats internally anyways, I think rotation field values are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> immediately converted at parsing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The best explanation, apart from studying glTF loaders, is apparently<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> in this figure, sorry about that:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/master/specification/2.0/figures/gltfOverview-2.0.0a.png<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> OK, I will look for more recent info, but I don’t think anything in this<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> has<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> changed. Structure and data – names may be different but the data and its<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> application is the same. Now I know there may be some new tech but for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> basics stuf, not much has changed in the last 20 years since hanim was<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> specified.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The glTF spec. itself, I think, refers to the figure to explain meaning.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> translation of a simple glTF character to an HAnim humanoid would be a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> good first step.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> A better first step would be to transcode an HAnim humanoid into gltf and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> back again. From what I saw it would work. After all, it is all the same<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> structure and same data. I was going to work on the Boxman and the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> JoeKick<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> models in the x3d hanim example archives.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Well, these are two steps. The simplest rigged skining glTF example seems<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> to be:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF-Sample-Models/tree/master/2.0/RiggedSimple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> A functional, minimal subset of HAnim of nodes and/or a Proto-based<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> implementation of the nodes would also help implementers.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Of course we have the proto-based nodes for HAnim where the geometries<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> are<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> children of Segments (bones) and we animate the skeleton. A prototype for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> seamless skin animation is Boxman in x3d hanim archives - it needs a<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> fancy<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> script to move skin. Since there are no other features of x3d that<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> approximate the way skin is animated, there are no scriptless prototypes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Ok: Here is the link:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> http://www.web3d.org/x3d/content/examples/Basic/HumanoidAnimation/HAnimPrototypesIndex.html<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> But I do not see scripts ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Will there be an proto update for the new version of HAnim ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> A main challenge will be probably the requirement to have vertex<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> geometry manipulation in a shader on the GPU. This is done only for<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> displacement textures of a CommonSurfaceShader node currently in<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> x3dom.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Yes, we need to control individual ‘skin’ vertices according to a simple<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> weighting algorithm depending upon rotation of one or more joints. That<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> has<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> been a problem, yet it is so basic, that and morph shape, that we should<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> have both features outside the Humanoid container.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Yes, morphing seems generally useful. I think glTF may use weighted<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> matrices but not sure.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> If anyone wants to learn character animation, anything you learn about<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> x3d<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> hanim will not be a waste of time. X3d hanim still documents an industry<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> standard approach where inputs were taken from all major toolmakers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> because<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> strangely, even back in the late 1990’s there was great input from users<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> the biggies that they had to allow data to be exported and transported<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> between applications. Only the names were changed to prevent favoritism<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> preserve innocence – ooh, and to bring the secretive data structures and<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> bindings out into the open.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Ok. I will say that the HAnim prototypes which do not need scripts<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> should be possible, even straightforward to port to x3dom and probably<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> x_ite native nodes. John's protoexpander probably already could deal<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> with those. So the main challenge probably really is the GPU based<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> vertex displacing.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Is there any use in having the Grouping/Transform type HAnim nodes only ?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Best, -Andreas<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Joseph D Williams<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> <joedwil@earthlink.net> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> both X3DOM and X_ITE …<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> The discussions about both X3DOM and X_ITE are, to me, missing a very<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> important feature. Neither of these tools can do HAnim skeleton<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> controlled<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> deformable skin. This is a very important feature, lending itself to<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> many<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> important applications in addition to HAnim. There have been several<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> discussions about the hanim joint(s) to deformable skin bindings and as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> far<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> as I have seen, there is no doubt that the way x3d specifies the basic,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> most<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> simple, and most transportable technique to achieve the result. So, as<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> the<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> HAnim standard takes the next step, why not move a bit toward<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> implementing<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> this important capability in your browsers. BSContact does it, I think<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Instant does it mostly but x3dom and x_ite don’t.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Thanks and Best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Joe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> --<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> Leonard Daly<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> 3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>> President, Daly Realism - Creating the Future<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Andreas Plesch<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Waltham, MA 02453<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>x3d-public mailing list<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>x3d-public@web3d.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>