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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">John,<br>
<br>
In HTML a node can only appear once in the DOM. It is not possible
for a DOM node to DEF/USE in the sense that X3D requires it. It is
not required for the 3D scene graph to be in the DOM. That makes
the 3D content, data within the HTML page. From that perspective
(and speaking of X3D here), X3D would be embedded in the HTML
page, but not part of the DOM. This is somewhat equivalent to
using a 'data:' URI for an image. The information would be all
there, but the individual nodes would not be accessible as DOM
nodes unless explicitly added by the code processing the 'data:'
URI.<br>
<br>
As far as I have been able to tell (and I have been studying this
issue for 3+ years), the choice is<br>
<br>
1) Include X3D code (tags, protos, scripts, etc.) as data within
the HTML page and do have it as nodes in the DOM<br>
2) Change X3D so it is compatible with and follows the rules HTML5
making X3D nodes full members of the DOM<br>
3) Change HTML5 so it is compatible with X3D.<br>
4) Decide that X3D and HTML5 exist is two separate spaces and
should not be integrated.<br>
<br>
(1) is certainly an option and (I think, perhaps Andreas should
comment here) this is similar to what X_ITE does<br>
(2) has been raised for several years and some people are
absolutely opposed to this<br>
(3) not going to happen<br>
(4) not an expressed desired of the Consortium.<br>
<br>
XSeen has taken the (2) approach. It supports the DEF/USE concept
for selected (proper) subset of node capabilities. It also focuses
on assembly / integration of scene components rather than modeling
objects. It is expected that most models will be provided by glTF.<br>
<br>
Leonard Daly<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAGC3UE=7qjQfAQvjVxMhTgDQ3wJhwXdU=6pN4wUnc4pwzOpPoQ@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>
<div dir="auto">Leonard, I agree my approach may not work in all
environments.</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Determining a valid or invalid mime type is
extremely difficult if done semantically, but extremely easy if
done syntactically. My guess is that many of the X3D tags are
semantically invalid, unless someone has added them to Apache.
I do not know the status of this. I have to add mine types to
my server for every new extension I add. It is not a that big
of a deal.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">One may not need a script tag around X3D script to
execute X3D script. One may use eval in a script tag. One may
make script inconsequential by making the scripts only
functions, and move the functions to a string which is evaled.
Essentially you are parsing twice.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">If we want script fields handled by X3DOM, we will
have to find someway to bring them into X3DOM. X_ITE has shown
the way. We can take other approaches than X3DOM, like
straight DOM. I am beginning to think this is preferable, but
using DEF to find node which aren’t in the scenegraph has kind
of been, wtf?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The question has become “Are DEFed SFNodes valid
scenegraph objects if they are in fields?” This may show a
failing of X3DOM, which may need to be corrected. I can
probably find the scengraph object using USE, but I really want
to use DEF. Can someone show me how to do it in the HTML5
environment?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">John</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 12:24 AM Leonard Daly
<<a href="mailto:Leonard.Daly@realism.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Leonard.Daly@realism.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_-7056022351321710558moz-cite-prefix">I am
replying to an early message in this thread, but I hope
to capture comments from all messages in the thread. My
comments only apply to the web browser (HTML5)
environment.<br>
<br>
First, any Script tag (in any case) will be handled by
the web browser, and the web browser will parse content
before anything else. If you really need to
independently parse some tags, you will need to "read"
it into a JavaScript variable and handle it that way. If
it's in the page file, it will be parsed.<br>
<br>
There was a suggestion to use "text/x3dscript" or some
other string. The W3C has something to say about this at
<a class="m_-7056022351321710558moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html#the-script-element"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html#the-script-element</a>.
The value of the type attribute must either be<br>
<ol>
<li>omitted</li>
<li>JavaScript MIME type</li>
<li>"module"</li>
<li>any other valid mime type</li>
</ol>
<p>So the use of an invalid MIME type is not technically
valid HTML. This may cause a problem with some
browsers or validators; or present future problems if
that string is ever defined to have a particular
meaning.</p>
<p>X3DOM does not have X3D scripting. If you need
scripting to correctly process an X3DOM environment;
then you need to do it in HTML5 Javascript. X3DOM does
not process the Script tag, that is done by HTML5.
While X3DOM parser could recognize that tag, it does
not; hence, none of the X3DOM methods are available to
handle interactions on a Script node (a Script tag
parsed into DOM).</p>
<p>The X3D Script / HTML5 Script tag name conflict is a
long-standing and known issue. To my knowledge no work
has been done to break the conflict. <br>
</p>
<p>Leonard Daly<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-7056022351321710558WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Here’s my current code for
clearing the ECMAScript out of a X3D file so that it
doesn’t show on the screen:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
$(selector+" Script").contents().filter(function ()
{</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
return this.nodeType === 3 || this.nodeType === 4;</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
}).remove();</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This retains the fields. I may
change my code to work with fields instead of
parsing out the fields into properties (but
directOutput is nice). This would mean that X3DOM
has to route to and from the script fields (is this
possible?).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a>
for Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><b>From:
</b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Saturday, August 4, 2018 4:56 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">X3D-Public</a>;
<a href="mailto:x3dom-users@lists.sourceforge.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">x3dom
mlist</a>; <a
href="mailto:andreasplesch@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Andreas
Plesch</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [x3d-public] good example for
ECMAScripting and Protos?</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a problem with this file
in X3DOM, because as far as I can tell, the SFNode
fields (the node, not the field) do not have
getFieldValue for point etc. as a function, for
example (but one can double check me). In other
words, I don’t think this node is an X3DOM node.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thus I cannot take a reasonable
length in the script. One would have to parse the
string.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
That’s as clear as I can get. I think this might be
because x3dom does not process scripts correctly. We
would need a script tag handler, and a field handler
inside that.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you help Andreas? I’ve
created a script tag before, but that code is lost.
It might be in my GitHub repository somewhere, not
sure.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We just need a script tag that
has fields, but doesn’t execute its CDATA section.
I am pretty sure</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">How is V4.0 handling this?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Alternatively, I can change my
nodeUtil code to look at the type and do the right
thing converting a string to the correct type.
Suggestions are welcome.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the great example,
Vince,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Should I adapt my code to deal
with this failing in X3DOM, or should we change
X3DOM?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from <a
href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Mail</a>
for Windows 10</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a
href="mailto:vmarchetti@kshell.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vmarchetti@kshell.com</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, August 1, 2018 9:04 PM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">John
Carlson</a>; <a
href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">X3D-Public</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] good example for
ECMAScripting and Protos?</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">See </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://www.kshell.com/pages/pointcloudvisualization/SphereDirectedPointSet.x3d"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.kshell.com/pages/pointcloudvisualization/SphereDirectedPointSet.x3d</a></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is a X3D file with with a
Prototype + ecmascript definition of a point
cloud, with a vector attached to each point of the
cloud.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Example used is just points
randomly distributed on sphere with directs
pointed radially outward.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Potential uses would be to
implement the scanning design pattern
at <a
class="m_-7056022351321710558moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/Scanning/X3dMeshDesignPatternIndex.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://x3dgraphics.com/examples/X3dForAdvancedModeling/Scanning/X3dMeshDesignPatternIndex.html</a>
, or</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">visualizing fluid flow or
electromagnetic field</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 31, 2018, at 10:30
PM, John Carlson <a
class="m_-7056022351321710558moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:yottzumm@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><yottzumm@gmail.com></a>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there a good example
of ECMAScripting in X3D that I can use to
test my X3D JSON ECMAScript preprocessor?
Preferably with Protos<span
class="m_-7056022351321710558apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Monaco",serif">_______________________________________________<br>
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Monaco",serif"><br>
</span><a
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target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Monaco",serif;color:#954f72">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</span></a></p>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="m_-7056022351321710558mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
x3d-public mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="m_-7056022351321710558moz-signature">-- <br>
<font
class="m_-7056022351321710558tahoma,arial,helvetica
m_-7056022351321710558san m_-7056022351321710558serif"
color="#333366"> <font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font class="tahoma,arial,helvetica san serif" color="#333366">
<font size="+1"><b>Leonard Daly</b></font><br>
3D Systems & Cloud Consultant<br>
LA ACM SIGGRAPH Past Chair<br>
President, Daly Realism - <i>Creating the Future</i>
</font></div>
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