<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Of course, nobody wants to introduce a patented technology into the standard. This would be disastrous.</div><div><br></div><div>However, I see this concern as independent from my dream outlined on <a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Allow-to-propose-the-specification-improvements-publicly%2C-using-something-like-GitHub-pull-requests">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Allow-to-propose-the-specification-improvements-publicly%2C-using-something-like-GitHub-pull-requests</a> . My idea is simply about allowing people to more easily submit contributions to the specifications. My point of view is that *all* contributions, whether 1. submitted by an an anonymous individual through a Web3D "spec comment form", or 2. submitted by a company that is a Web3D member (and claims that this work is royalty-free, otherwise there would be no point in submitting it to X3D standard)... they both must go through the same review process. In both cases an independent person, acting on behalf of Web3D consortium, who is technically and legally "literate", must check whether this contribution is valid, and really preserves the royalty-free nature of the Web3D specification. And a community input in this process can only help. "G<span class="gmail-st">iven enough eyeballs, </span>all the bugs are shallow".</div><div><br></div><div>So my dream is to allow everyone the same, maximally comfortable, way to submit corrections to the X3D specification.</div><div><br></div><div>And we can see an excellent example how this approach works in case of Khronos when they design glTF specification.</div><div><br></div><div>Browsing through their <a href="https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/">https://github.com/KhronosGroup/glTF/</a> , including commits, issues and pull requests, one can be amazed at how transparent their whole process is. Navigate into any "pull request" to see reviews, discussions, etc. They have 601 closed pull requests, out of which 548 were merged (IOW, there were proposed, reviewed and then applied using the standard GitHub "pull request" workflow). And that's only for the specification. There are additional repos for glTF-Sample-Models , glTF-Tutorials , glTF-Blender-Exporter ...</div><div><br></div><div>It is inspiring, and I admit that in my dreams, X3D process gets closer to what Khronos is doing when they develop glTF.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I absolutely know that we share the same goals, and I'm quite sure we'll get to great things in X3D :)</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Michalis<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">pt., 26 paź 2018 o 20:22 Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> napisał(a):<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
Good thoughts Michalis. Some things we can someday do, but some potentially fatal problems are really important to avoid. A few more pieces of this big mosaic:
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many participants in the original VRML 94-97 community worked and joined together in 1998 to form the non-profit Web3D Consortium in order to the *protect the specification for the long term*, successfully creating a partnership among companies, agencies,
education institutions. The membership agreement allows members to bring in new technologies to improve our specifications as long as they _declare in advance that acceptance_ with the open standard is Royalty Free (RF) for any purpose.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This “safe haven” has worked. Companies can offer patented work for consideration without fear of losing intellectual property rights (IPR) prematurely. Our specifications continue to steadily evolve and remain RF with over two decades of careful due
diligence. Literally a “win win win win win win” scenario for companies, agencies, universities, individual practitioners, partnered liaison organizations and (not least) the general public.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Of note is that World WIde Web Consortium (W3C) eventually changed their two-track process to a single RF-only track, much like Web3D. International Standards Organization (ISO) has also improved procedures in that such clarity is much more highly encouraged
than ever before.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This all might sound wonky... so here is perhaps the best-known example of how file specifications can go badly sideways and threatened by commercial interests. The GIF image format widely used and instrumental in early Web bootstrapping, then threatened
with royalties. Major multi-year uproar ensued:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Unisys_and_LZW_patent_enforcement" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIF#Unisys_and_LZW_patent_enforcement</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is valuable for each of consider how so very many many “VR” technologies have come and gone over the years, often sinking from most-popular to oblivion without a trace. The Web3D international standards for X3D and HAnim continue ratchet forward and
progress. I don’t think that is accidental.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There’s more along this avenue (of course) but the point remains that we are not unwittingly accepting potentially patented technology. Web3D members (you and I included) have committed to act professionally within carefully crafted rules, for shared
advantage by, uh well, everyone. Membership indeed has value - pretty cool!<br>
<br>
Let me dream about the future too please Michalis - I hope that</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- more and more people use X3D to publish and share their 3D models;</div>
<div>- we continue to show that 3D visualization, interaction, printing, scanning and metadata can coexist effectively;<br>
- we together “finish” our active implementations of X3D 3.3 compatibly and completely;</div>
<div>- we keep building X3D capabilities upwards and outwards on our solid foundation for HTML5/DOM (X3D v4) and VR/AR/MAR/XR (X3D v4.1);</div>
<div>- archival X3D adoption for medical and heritage uses saves human lives and human knowledge.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for your many contributions to all of these things Michalis. The subject work on github access may well accelerate each with more and more practitioners... we’ll see.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Onward we carefully and relentlessly go! Having fun with X3D. 😀</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>v/r Don<br>
<br>
<div id="m_-3176261094821809582AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Sent
from my handheld device</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Oct 25, 2018, at 9:49 PM, Michalis Kamburelis <<a href="mailto:michalis.kambi@gmail.com" target="_blank">michalis.kambi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><span>Brutzman, Donald (Don) (CIV) <<a href="mailto:brutzman@nps.edu" target="_blank">brutzman@nps.edu</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>As before am thinking there may be 3 kinds/classes of projects to maintain and evolve:</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>A. Controlled (such as draft spec) for private access and work by Web3D members;</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>B. Curated (such as Schemas, DTDs, etc.) with public exposure, X3D Working Group review and approval;</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>C. Community (such as X3D Examples Archives, maybe X3D Tooltips) that provided validated/verified public assets for X3D use & adoption.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br>
</blockquote>
<span></span><br>
<span>BTW, in my dreams, in the future, this could change, to be a bit more open.</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>I don't want to entangle this discussion in this thread, as it is</span><br>
<span>unrelated to the current task (GitHub repo mirroring</span><br>
<span><a href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/" target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/projects/x3d/</a> ). But It's something I will</span><br>
<span>mention at some point in 2019 :) And in the meantime, you can find the</span><br>
<span>information on my wiki page (</span><br>
<span><a href="https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Allow-to-propose-the-specification-improvements-publicly%2C-using-something-like-GitHub-pull-requests" target="_blank">https://github.com/michaliskambi/x3d-tests/wiki/Allow-to-propose-the-specification-improvements-publicly%2C-using-something-like-GitHub-pull-requests</a></span><br>
<span>).</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>Regards,</span><br>
<span>Michalis</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>