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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Hello Albert,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">With specific regard to forms, have you looked at
<a href="https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/">XForms</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">The <a href="https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0">
XForms 2 Recommendation</a> is currently being finalised but you might find XForms as a suitable extension to X3D as there is a clear separation between the form definition and the rendered appearance of controls which lends itself to being used within a variety
of host mark-up languages like (X)HTML, SVG and potentially X3D.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt">Philip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">x3d-public <x3d-public-bounces@web3d.org> on behalf of Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 14 December 2018 at 14:04<br>
<b>To: </b>"vmarchetti@kshell.com" <vmarchetti@kshell.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>X3D Graphics public mailing list <x3d-public@web3d.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">Hi Leonard,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">I am sorry for the late response: somehow your reply below didn't enter my mailbox, and I found it later in the archives.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">It is good to hear that the Immersive Web WG is already working on these issues. I am a novice on the subject of Html/X3D specifications. But having been involved in the POC on
HoloLens I was surprised the current X3D doesn't include the features yet that we take for granted in 2D. Of course this only becomes relevant when 3D devices will become comfortable enough to offer a competitive browsing experience with flat screens.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">But it seems to me that when that moment comes, many entities will want to offer a 3D equivalent of their website,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">Although maybe preferable, I am not sure whether an integrated DOM is necessary. I think X3D would already benefit greatly by just having Html islands within X3D, maybe as an extension
of the material tag.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">We are not involved in hardware development, only software. Do you think it would in anyway helpful to join a discussion of the W3C Immersive Web WG? Eventually the technology
for the 3D web is probably something for the major browsers to agree upon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white">Albert Jan Wonnink<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black;background:white"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black;background:white">Hi Albert, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black;background:white">X3D (in strict specification sense) cannot be integrated with HTML5. There are fundamental incompatibilities that prevent that from happening (see node and
attribution case, Script node name, name scoping, and event handling for major examples). I started developing XSeen (</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><a href="https://xseen.org/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#0066CC">https://XSeen.org/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black;background:white">)
to address to issues. XSeen is fully integrated with HTML5 allowing mixed DOM and 3D content throughout the page. The W3C Immersive Web WG is addressing many of the issues you have raised in this and other emails. Some of these issues end up being much more
involved than what appears on the surface, especially when involving device fingerprinting, security considerations, or user permissions. In particular your question about incorporating 2D web pages into 3D scene very quickly starts down the part of security
considerations. For example, does the 2D content have access to the 3D space? Does the 3D context have access to the 2D pages? How do you ensure that a click on a 2D page element (e.g., checkbox) really gets handled by the 2D page and is not completely intercepted
by something in the 3D space? If you are developing some hardware with associated software that will work in the XR space, it might be very good to get involved with them. I can provide contact information if you need it. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Consolas;color:black;background:white">Leonard Daly</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Van:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> dinsdag 11 december 2018 11:52<br>
<b>Aan:</b> vmarchetti@kshell.com<br>
<b>CC:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">If one can only have planes (or maybe even curved surfaces) having 2d browser content in a 3D SceneGraph a large part of the described issue would be resolved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">I thing the 2D and 3D browsing environment should be reciprocal to be most effective. But I couldn't find this described yet, and I can imagine this is viewed and tackled another way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Albert Jan Wonnink<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Van:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Albert Jan Wonnink <awonnink@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 10 december 2018 00:09<br>
<b>Aan:</b> vmarchetti@kshell.com<br>
<b>CC:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Thank you Vince for your reply. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The Anchor is indeed what I somehow failed to find earlier in the specification.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">The situation we envision is when XR glasses will be commonly used to access 3D websites that have similar possibilities for businesses as the current 2D sites. This means that 3D website builders
should be able surround a (part of a) text, an image or a 3D object with an anchor. Also one needs normal text fields, radio- and checkboxes etc. for users to be able to fill-in their choices and post back to the server.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Is this already possible to do in X3D?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Albert Jan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">Van:</span></b><span style="color:black"> vmarchetti@kshell.com <vmarchetti@kshell.com><br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> zondag 9 december 2018 22:43<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Albert Jan Wonnink<br>
<b>CC:</b> X3D Graphics public mailing list<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [x3d-public] Hyperlink and form support</span> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Albert <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">X3D does supports responding to mouse clicks on an elements of a 3D scene graph through the TouchSensor node (<a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/pointingsensor.html#TouchSensor">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/pointingsensor.html#TouchSensor</a>)
, and there is also functionality of following a URL attached<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">to a shape in the Anchor node: <a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/networking.html#Anchor">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/networking.html#Anchor</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There is a basic example of the Anchor node on the X_ITE website: <a href="http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/networking/anchor/#example">http://create3000.de/users-guide/components/networking/anchor/#example</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not sure what form support would mean in the context of a 3D Scenegraph, but there is a specification for capturing and responding to keyboard presses in the StringSensor node: <a href="http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/keyboard.html#StringSensor">http://www.web3d.org/documents/specifications/19775-1/V3.3/Part01/components/keyboard.html#StringSensor</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you say more about how you would like to extend the familiar interface patterns of hyperlinks and input forms into the 3D and VR worlds?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With Regards.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Vince Marchetti<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Dec 9, 2018, at 3:36 PM, Albert Jan Wonnink <<a href="mailto:awonnink@hotmail.com">awonnink@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">About a year ago we started a proof of concept of a browser suitable for HoloLens and supporting business processes. We choose X3D as basic format, but because of lack of knowledge of the full specification,
and having the focus on the technology, we added our own tags using a separate namespace.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">The most important features for which we couldn't find the X3D implementation where hyperlinks- and form support.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Does X3D support these? If so, where can I find the specification?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Albert Jan Wonnink<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco">_______________________________________________<br>
x3d-public mailing list<br>
</span><a href="mailto:x3d-public@web3d.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco">x3d-public@web3d.org</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco"><br>
</span><a href="http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Monaco">http://web3d.org/mailman/listinfo/x3d-public_web3d.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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